Each day the Congress involves itself the market goes down. Yesterday, while on Holiday the market went up.
EARTH TO CONGRESS GET OUT !!!
You are a bunch of Thieves. I wouldn’t trust you with my bank account.
I find it unbelievable and disheartening that the actions of a greedy few have totally destroyed our economy. What is even more troubling is that lawmakers are trying to cram this insane bailout down our throats as if it is the only option!! Why not spend a week or two discussing alternatives before picking one? The first idea is not necessarily the best. There is no guarantee that banks will all of a sudden start lending normally once their assets are sold — anyone notice how all of Bernanke’s rate cuts have failed to translate into lower mortgage rates? Instead of buying up these toxic mortgages that have either already gone bad or are likely to, freeing the greedy bank from their deserved failure, why not set up a lending system directly from the government to open up credit markets? They can appoint a few reputable institutions to service loans for creditworthy customers at a reasonable rate, then collect the interest and have the option to sell the servicing elsewhere at a later time. Let the banks work out their own issues (it’s the nature of capitalism that risk will sometimes beget failure and it’s necessary for some of these banks to be bought out by others) and in time the market will return to normal. They need to take their medicine so they don’t repeat the behavoir!
What a MESS! These gurus were paid millions to mess up the economy and now the Fed wants to bail them out for their gamble. What a joke. This mess is affecting far flung corners of the globe with world wide loss. Fix the system so people can’t sell what they haven’t got. (This is pure theft from mums and dads and pensioners accounts)Limit lending for share market speculation. Hang those gurus that have caused these problems, or at least throw them into jail. Sorry. This mess has to be fixed properly, once and for all.
Hey, there. It is very important that we de-couple Main Street from Wall Street for the purposes of this discussion.
While Wall Street fell almost 10% yesterday (probably due to shorts, panic, etc. among speculators and traders), Main Street probably GREW yesterday.
Make no mistake about it: the economy (Main Street) is not ‘fine’, but it is ’strong’, and it is much more stable than the markets (Wall Street).
Has anyone else noticed that there have been very few failures among the credit unions and 8000+ commercial banks ? The markets can be fixed by starting to enforce existing regulations (CFTC and SEC) and putting in place tough regulations for the areas that are currently unregulated. But, the current bailout is not the way to go, as it reinforces the behavior that creates these Wall Street panics.
As if we needed another one, this is another good reason not to privatize Social Security nor invest it in Wall Street. The Social Security Trust Fund needs to stay where it is, in Treasuries.
We can stop the Great Bailout!
Paulson, Bernanke, and Bush (Paulnankebush) as well as McCain and Obama are still pushing for passage of the Great
Bailout.
I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!
If you also want to stop the Great Bailout, please visit http://ImMad.net to sign a petition, right now!
Then email/tell as many people as you can to visit http://ImMad.net to do so too, right away!
This may be our last chance to speak up.
p.s. To learn about, and discuss, alternatives to the Great Bailout, visit http://AmericaIs.OurCreation.info .
A lot of folks are saying we should follow Buffett and they are lauding the rejection of the bail-out proposal. If I’m not mistaken, Buffet’s investment in Goldman was contingent upon the bail-out being approved.
Michelle,
Your response is why we need to improve the education in this country. $85 Billion divided by 200 Million is $425 not $425,000. Misplaced decimals are a common error, but when dealing with money, they are really important.
I for one, do not want $425 sent to me as an alternative to fixing a problem which cost the nation $1.2 trillion dollars in market valuation just yesterday. (That amounts to a $6,000 loss for each of your 200 million adults – except that the stockmarket holding are not evenly divided of course).
The reason that economics is called “the dismal science” is that it is counter intuitive. What works for the individual does not work for the group and vice versa. The unwillingness, or inability, of the president and his financial advisors to clearly explain the issues to the american people is at the heart of this crisis.
Simple, politically charged phrases like “bailout”, mask the reality of the issues rather than clarifying them.
Is Warren Buffet even in on the negotiations for advice? He surely is better versed by proof/example than our politicians. Hey! Wake up congress!
Who rushed into war in Iraq? It was obvious Bush desperately wanted the war, but I figured he would at least wait until he was reelected to start it. The fact that he started the war in his 1st term and the people rewarded him with a reelection, well that choice led to the current situation.
But in a larger sense it is fantastic that this current crisis occurred on the eve of a Presidential election. Now at least we see how our government works, and how we the people can directly affect it.
i don’t believe it’s as bad as bush and everyone is making it out to be everyone who gets in the stock market knows the risk they are taking..stop crying about it..no bail out i say wall street is making this happen to screw the people and if their not we don’t need a 700 billion dollar deeper hole let it take it course and calm down their all acting like little kids grow up and take the lickings
The claim that the credit markets have “frozen up” is a scam. The big banks have simply stopped lending to create this artificial “crisis” to prod their buddies in the White House to get them this bailout. They’re trying to game the system, and it almost worked.
If the bail out goes to the rich it just proves all their political contributions were well spent. There are enough banks and other monetary based institutions to fill the lending void. But these should be ‘filled’ from Consumer spending, savings that are safely tucked away, invested in Wall Street stock markets and saved in the ‘New’ banks that will take the place of the old failed ones; without the current failures getting a slice of the pie. The current cast of players should really just volunteer their time to clean things up until the mess is cleared up – when the FBI investigations are complete. Maybe the Judge wil give credit for ‘time’ spent.
Re Silverman’s article ‘Liquidity v Confidence. Who respects Bernanke and Paulson? These guys are there for their mates and are looking for the easy way out. Gee, they are sure good at sticking on a plaster, but the next day it’s all back to the same problem again.
We ‘plebs’ are told not to worry and that shares are a long term thing. In the long run all will be fine. It’s a pity that these fraudsters aren’t made to hold their shares for a certain time – at least a week – before selling on again. Meanwhile these creeps are creaming off all the profits. This is fraud and the Fed should look at ways to get some of this cream back.
As for liquidity – if a bank has loaned 40+ times the money it has access to, then there is a problem. The money world has gone mad and there has to be a brake applied to this nonsense. No-one should run on credit. It is stupid!!
A freeze on credit may not be a bad thing at the moment as it will give the population a chance to assess what they have been doing. Some people seem to have been on a money merry-go-round. They have been producing nothing, selling what they have3n’t got, buying stock that the seller doesn’t own, with money they are lending from banks who don’t really have any money to lend in the forst place. This is sheer madness and there needs to be laws against this type of fraud.
Hey, people. This was a bad deal for taxpayers and voters.
Write your congresspeople. We don’t want this bailout. We want a workout: take out the failing investment banks, rehabilitate the few survivors, and set up a new ‘master bank’, maybe organized around the FHA, who writes only 30-year, fixed-rate, assumable mortgages.
Sweep out the trash and start over. It’s much cheaper than trying to save uninsured mortgage and investment banks.
Suckered by a pyramid scheme
Question: I invested $700 billion with a company called Wall Street in 2008. At a republican meeting, Wall Street claimed to invest in securities and promised a monthly return of 25%. Before I got any payment, the state froze Wall Street’s funds, saying it was a fraud. Will I get my money back? – Submitted by Paulson, Secretary of the Tresuary.
Answer: Oh, dear! You let yourself get snared in a classic pyramid scheme, where scam artists recruit investors with promises of humongous returns, pay the early investors using money from the later ones – and spend the rest on themselves. Usually, by the time you realize you’re involved with no-goodniks, they’ve skipped town.
Quote from super rich Wall Street banker: “It’s a huge disappointment,” said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank.
I guess he was counting on his 10 billion cut of the George Bush taxpayer’s money giveaway to Wall Street.
The sky did not fall George Bush like you said it would.
Dodd was crying his eyes out that his buddies on Wall Street were not going to get their 700 billion George Bush bonus this year.
Seems like our taking money of the top ten major banks really scared Congress that they would have a bigger mess on their hands if they bailed out Wall Street.
Keep up the good work people. Don’t let the Wall Street Bankers get a 700 billion Christmas bonus from us Tax payers.
Perhaps now we can force Congress to give us back the jobs they stole from us and the health care and our homes.
An AWESOME day for America.
Keep up the fight people. They have only suspended the vote.
KEEP THE PRESSURE UP
NO BAILOUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
Does anyone remember 18% PEIME RATE? It was difficult, but, we worked through it. Now we are RUSHING INTO AN OVERNIGHT SOLUTION; just like we RUSHED into WAR in IRAQ. We know that Geo W does not THINK through a problem.
SOMEONE, not just his BUDDIES, need to ANALYZE the RESULTS of any possible action. The Market can handle a SHORT TERM loss.
Hey, on the bright side, those of us that eat and buy gasoline should start to be better off. Oil is down over $10.00 a barrel and the other commodities should follow suit. The prices will come down!
We are seeing what can happen when bad investments go bad. I just dont understand why the goverment doest learn from the greates Capitalist of our Nation.. Buffett.. The bailout plan is only throwing money away. We need to loan the money to these companies with a reasonable APR. If we buy stock it will only collapse as Freddie and Fannie did.
Are you better than 8 years ago? Its the economy stupid … Are you still considering the republicans for Nov?
LIQUIDITY VS CONFIDENCE
As much as I have great respect for Messrs. Bernanke and Paulson, I do question one key assumption behind their belief that we NEED a bailout to prevent a collapse of the financial system, which would lead to a collapse in the entire economy. Specifically, why do they think that taking all of the junk off of bank’s balance sheets will all of a sudden get banks lending again? Is it really a matter of insufficient liquidity, or is it a matter of confidence?
Just like lenders went overboard in lending during the housing boom, and carelessly made many bad loans, lenders today may make few loans because they see EVERY loan going into default! If this is the case, no amount of money in the world is going to un-freeze the credit markets, but a $700 Billion bailout will go a long way to removing the cost of bad decisions that bankers made. (Perhaps the government can give me $700,000 to compensate me for all of the bad decisions I have made in my life. LOL)
I guess we will see in the next several months what the outcome of “inaction” will be.
Michelle, there is a problem with your math. $85billion divided by 200million is only $425.00. Even $700billion divided by 200million would only be $3,500.00. It matters not, the House rejected this bogus bill. Finally, the government did what the people (majority) wanted. For better or worse.
Good idea – terrible execution!
Warren Buffett has given these idiots in Washington a model to follow in his recent Goldman Sachs capital infusion. Why don’t they just wake up! Every firm that needs capital should be able to get it from the government which will invest via preferred stock yielding 10% plus warrants. The writedowns will continue until these garbage securities are flushed down the toilet. Some financial institutions will be nationalized. When they are cleaned up, they can be privatized again at a profit for the US taxpayer.
This is not complicated. Let’s follow the lead of the world’s best investor, shall we?
Now that we know the answer on the $700 billie, we need to move forward:
Banks are not the problem; the non-bank finance companies are
Close the weak ones; save the strong
Do it today or tomorrow; do not wait
Have a bank holiday for a few days to do this, if necessary
Everybody else should try to keep their jobs and start/keep paying their mortgages
Keep going; life will go on.
This was sent to me via email.
I’m against the $85 Billion bailout of AIG, as well as the $700 Billion for the rest of the selfish crooks! Instead, I’m in favor of giving the $85,000,000,000 to America in a “We Deserve It” Dividend.
To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.. I figure there’s about 200,000,000 adults 18 and older. Dividing 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
Here’s my plan. Give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a “We Deserve It” Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ would pay $127,500.00 in taxes (which returns $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam!). But it also means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. Think about i t:
A husband and wife has $595,000. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage? Housing crisis solved. Repay college loans? What a great boost to new graduates. Put away money for college? Why not? Open a saving account at a bank and help create loan money for mortgages and entrepreneurs. Buy a new car (create jobs); invest in the market (capital drives growth); pay for your parent’s medical insurance; there’s lots and lots of things an extra $297,500 might improve, don’t you think?
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth, let’s really do it, instead of trickling out a puny $1000 ( “buy your vote” ) economic incentive being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG – liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General g o back to being American General. Sell off the real estate.. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here’s my rationale. We deserve this money; AIG doesn’t. You may think this is a crazy idea that’ll never work. But just imagine the “We Deserve It” Coast-To-Coast Block Parties! Can you say, “Economic Boom?”
I trust my fellow adult Americans to use their portion of the $85 Billion (remember, my plan actually costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned in taxes to Uncle Sam) to boost the economy much more than Congress or the Executive Branch ever could!
Who’s with me?
No love for the bailout-what do investors think about the $700 billion package?
“A bailout could help get struggling financial firms back on their feet but investors realize that the recovery will be a long process and that more bank bombshells could lie in waiting.”
read the last line slowly,,,the financial correction needs to occur, the American People have already absorbed the brunt, make no mistake.
Magician Bush needs to spill all the beans, he apparently has us in deeper than we know the fallout is needed.
The Constitution did not give anyone as much power as being requested by Paulson, to unilaterally make decisions based on need. He made 30MM before being appointed what does he know about “need” No
No credit we were founded on Silver/Gold.
The arguments made by our lawmakers in support of this bill are amazingly stupid. They all assume that either we do nothing or we accept this plan. They don’t even realize there are many other ways to handle the credit crisis.
For example, give money to strong regional banks which have not bribed the lawmakers, and let them make credit available to consumers and other banks.
The “bail out” bill should have contained real consumer based policies that would have gotten our economy back to free market controls. If banks need money, why are the interest rates on consumer accounts dropping. My credit card interest rate is 23%, why aren’t banks paying me 8% on savings…they will get plenty of “bail out” money. We stopped driving, why aren’t the oil prices down to $25 a barrel? If our homes are now investments because Wall Street played with mortgages, why can’t I write off the loss on my federal income tax return like I can other investments? That would certainly get the housing market moving again. If salaries are dropping for the average US citizen, why haven’t the president, congress and banking CEP’s cut their pay? This is another example of Washington being hopelessly out of touch. The free market will take care of many financial woes, if we just step back and give power back to the consumers. Break up the monopolies, eliminate corporate handouts, and let the consumers vote with their wallets! And if Washington needs a bill, let’s reintroduce congressional term limits, and give congress the gift of living like “real folk”.
Congratulations to those in congress who had the fortitude (and probably facing re-election in Nov) to vote against this bail-out. There is another option to stimulate the economy and put cash into local banks and communities. Send evry taxpaying household $25K. We’ll put it in circulation, pay mortgages, buy food, buy gas to go to work and put it in local banks. that will take care of Main Street and Wall Steet can just sit and watch the slow “trickle-up” process like they’ve been forcing us to watch the non-existant “Trickle-down” for the last 8 years.
Between 1992 and 1995, Japan tried six spending programs totaling 65.5 trillion yen and cut income tax rates during 1994. In January 1998, Japan temporarily cut taxes again by 2 trillion yen. Then, in April of that year, the government unveiled a fiscal stimulus package worth more than 16.7 trillion yen, almost half of which was for public works. Again, in November 1998, another fiscal stimulus package worth 23.9 trillion yen was announced. A year later (November 1999), yet another fiscal stimulus package of 18 trillion yen was tried. Finally, in October 2000, Japan announced yet another fiscal stimulus package of 11 trillion yen. Overall during the 1990s, Japan tried 10 fiscal stimulus packages totaling more than 100 trillion yen, and each failed to cure the recession.
How many $700 billion bailouts will it take?
Whoo-hoo! The thing failed! Who said we don’t have a voice anymore. We, the People, still exist and can make a difference.
Well let’s take a look at Europe. They are already in the process of bailing out the financial institutions there. Things got pretty ugly in the markets even as it was announced and happening. There is a complete loss of confidence in the system when government bails these companies out on this level. These ’smart’ executives got these companies into this mess and now are crying for the federal government to rescue them. The same thing happened here in New Orleans in 2005. You may remeber Hurricane Katrina, what you don’t know is that the New Orleans emergency plan was to wait in the Superdome for 3 days, yes 3 days, for the federal and state governments to rescue them. This is a bit different, and may seem like comparing an apple to orange. The basic principal of getting yourself into trouble and expecting the government to help is my point. It did not work well for New Orleans and it will not work well for Wall Street. The government will screw it up. They won’t intend to, they will. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. We are better off suffering the pain that would occur when these companies fail. We will be better off in the long run, and companies will know they can’t screw it up and look for the tax payers to bail them out. That will lead to more fical responsability and financial conservatism. Two things we desperatly need right now and in the future.
“All right, so Uncle Sam decided to bail out the Wall Street. Now the real question is: Who´s gonna bail out Uncle Sam?”, chinese banker
No because the bailout doesn’t solve the real problem here. American’s are broke and getting poorer by the day! The government’s answer is to flood the market with money and hope credit opens back up so we can borrow our way more in debt to try to keep the dream alive (at least until the election is over). WAKE UP! The party is over. Let the economy run it’s course without government intervention.
If this bailout passes you’re going to see a lot of pissed off American’s. I think you’re going to see non essential spending come to a halt (for those who still have some disposable income) and the market is going to come crashing down hard when investors figure out how overly inflated everything is when people actually live within their means.
Let the good times roll
Bail out will mean nothing, other than the fat pigs making over a million / year will continue to do so while the little guy pays the bill. Get used to it people there is NOTHING you can do about it!
No, it does not resolve the core problem: capital-impaired banks. The Treasury’s purchase of bad loans gets them off the bank’s balance sheets, but with substantial costs of capital write-offs as opposed to merely setting up reserves. Reserve allocations are reversible if the market improves; write-offs cannot be reversed. The banks will have cash again, but will they lend it or just hold it back to cover potential withdrawals from their institution? With capital accounts impaired, my bet is that the banker will be very conservative in their lending, even to other banks, in order to preserve their remaining capital.
Banks are hesitant to lend to each other because they know more bank failures are coming. Washington Mutual and Wachovia were the big one that the FDIC had to resolve without dissipation the FDIC reserves for bank closures. The commercial banks know that more banks will fail, but they are not sure which ones will. Sec. Paulson has the discretion to pick and choose from which institutions he will and will not purchase bad loans and securities. He will not use that authority to save banks that are doomed to fail anyway. His selective refusal to purchase the bad loans of some banks will merely confirm their death sentence. That makes domestic, inter-bank lending event more uncertain and does not even begin to address domestic-bank lending to the foreign banks.
The bottom line is that no banker is willing to appear supremely stupid in having loaned money to a bank that becomes insolvent with 90 day of the advance. Therein lays the root of the problem.
Its just like a child. If it does something wrong just give it a timeout. Thats what is wrong with our society today…there is no accountability for our actions. If you don’t properly punish the children (the thieves that run corporate America) they will not learn their lesson. We might have to rename our country to the UNITED SOCIALIST STATES if this is passed. There needs to be a complete overhaul with our government. It is supposed to be by the people, and for the people…not by corporate America and for corporate America. In my opinion these people are traiters to our great country.
What proponents of the bailout fail to realize is that it won’t fix our failed business model. Sure it will help financial institutions for a while, until the next bailout is needed and the next and so on. Similar to the Nigerian scam where the scammer slowly bleeds its victim to death. Here the victim being the US government and by extension the taxpayer. Plain and simple, the rest of our economy is too small to support a bloated financial sector that produces essentailly nothing besides toxic debt and huge bonuses for its employees. It is time to pay the piper, no matter how painful for all involved. Delaying the day of reckoning will only make it so much worse once it arrives. The money should be invested into energy, infrastructure, manufacturing, education an health care. Sectors of the economy that actually produce real goods. That is the only way we will get back on track, everything else are simply delay tactics that will lead to even larger problems in the not too distant future.
LOL
The Wall Street Bankers have stolen all our money and now want more money from us.
LOL
Let market forces run their course and let them become bankrupt like the rest of us.
Let’s vote with our bank accounts and move all our omoney from Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, MetLife, Sun Trust to local banks and let the bankrupt Fed deal with the bankrupt major banks.
Congress did nothing while our jobs were sent overseas except to reward those who did.
Congress did nothing while we lost our health care.
Congress did nothing while we lost our homes and future.
Congress did nothing while middle class Americans lost everything.
Congress should do nothing while Wall Street bankers go bankrupt and take the super rich with them.
If we had some police with guts they would arrest Congress, Wall Street Bankers and the Executive branch starting with the President.
The markets were expecting a gift. All they got is really what is out there in the market. No free lunch and a leviathan, the Feds, who have the money and set the new standards in the market. I will buy you cheap and if I lose money then you will pay the loss is 5 years.
It will help temporarily. It will give banks capital to loan again. But in the long run, the end may be even worse. We are bailing out a subprime loan problem with a subprime loan. Not to mention the Dems added all their little things to it. Healthy capitalism needs to correct itself. The medicine might not taste good, but we, and especially the dollar, will be healthier in the long run.
The 700 Billion should have gone to those who were having trouble paying their mortgage.
The government should have shored up the difference between the ability to pay and the payment for the mortgage.
The front line managers, brokers and agents who approved these mortgages in the first place should have sounded warning bells months ago.
This ‘bailout’ is America’s new brand of ‘Socialism’…without any of the benefits!
Nationalization of AIG, makes the US government owner of the world’s largest insurance company with $5.5 trillion in liabilities.
Nationalization of the finance industry, increases the debt to American citizens to $14.8 trillion.
And all the ‘players’ both past and present will continuing to reap $$$ rewards!
The other 95% will to continue lose pensions, 401k, insurance benefits, security benefits, paychecks and homes.
No wonder citizens hate their government so much… 18% approval rating and ‘crashing’.
Allowing this ‘bailout’ to go forward will forever brand the American citizen as…..
Well! you know the word_____________.
Paul,
I think you know the answer you are going to get by the first part of your question…. No, the bailout will not work. It might stave off the infection for a while and give an appearance of health, but it will flare up in a much worse way. What the market is trying to tell everyone is that banks stocks are overvalued invested in poor business models (malinvestment) and has assets that are pretty well worthless. No amount of buying the worthless assets and moving them around will fix the fundamental issue. The bailout will go through, I just hope we vote out everyone who voted for it.
Your second question of Europe’s health is a bit trickier. There was talk in economics circles that the world was decoupling from the US economy. Well, we see now that it simply isn’t true. The Euro was overvalued for quite some time and will correct back to market based levels, if the EU permits it. Our problems are infecting the world and, with government manipulation, we poor investors are being sent the wrong signals and have no idea where to invest our cash.
The 700 billion dollar bailout is not a fix to the problem. It should not get proved. The core of the problem is the combination of the excessive greed of the bankers and the over-extension of Americans both in their private and public finances in general. The responsible and hard working middle-class Americans are getting squeezed. The problem is going to get much worse over the longer term (say, 10 years) before it can get better.
Paul as I said in another reply…get you pompus head out of the place where the sum doesn’t shine…you are one of the most ignorant and uneducated people I have ever heard…waste more money on this give away…again are you just ..NUTS.. let these Bankers, Fund Managers, Wall Street Brokers and their sales people who push these swindle documents and investment junk go to the hot place…take all their assets and spread it among the honest people of America…I am sure you agree with me since you write and talk like a communist..HEY..Here is a novel idea…give every family in the United States of America a check for 1,000,000.00…that would fix things don’t you think so Paul ?? or maybe you would not…I bet you would say that the honest people would not no how to handle the money…so your solution is to give it to the ones who already swindled, stole and cheated those honest Americans…you are quite the JERK brother…