Why aren’t the assets of Madoff, Fannie Mac, Citibank frozen? Why are these people walking off with new homes and corporate bonuses? They should be treated like a drug dealer – all assets and cash are confiscated. Why should we pay for these losers mistakes and mishandling?!
Pyramid schemes have been around for a very long time and always involve a group of conspirators – those at the top of the pyramid who benefit by bringing in the “investors” and their money. One person (one family) does not “pull-off” a large pyramid scheme. When the pyramid collapses the co-conspirators at the top of the pyramid feign well-rehearsed shock and try to blend-in with the actual victims but they are nevertheless knowing participants in the scheme. This is common knowledge easily gained in Pyramid Schemes 101 or Ponzi Schemes for Dummies. I have not seen it yet but investigative reporters should be chasing down the co-conspirators in “The Big Big Pyramid Scheme” like junk-yard dogs trying to get their teeth into a burglar’s butt.
Keep cash, precious metals and other tangible assets. Don’t let polititians serve more than one term in any office. What else can we do. The financial system is like a big casino. And we are all stuck in it. We have no pockets and the cards are see-through. All the games are rigged and the the only rule is don’t get caught.
KJE Wheaton, IL
Of course the government is running the biggest PONZI scheme in the history of mankind. How blind and dense are you not to recognize it? Social Security = take tax payer (investor) money today to pay off tax payers (previous investors) from the past. This is by definition HOW a PONZI scheme works…DUH!
I doubt GOD is in on it, but GOD will surely equalize all the accounts on the final day of reckoning, yours mine, Bernies, etc.
$50,000,000,000 (fifty billion): it’s mind boggling! How can an individual or organization (other than the Federal government) do away with that much money? You could start shoveling cash into a furnace and it would be a monumental task to burn fifty billion dollars!
To P Dangerfield and others accusing us of “censoring” the comments, please relax. The system we have does not allow comments to go up automatically. We do have to manually approve them and we do screen for content that is obscene or off the topic. We also try and limit the number of anonymous posts, which is clearly spelled out in the CNN Comment Policy. Also, we cannot post everything when we get a huge volume of posts, as we did with this story. But we do try to post as many comments as possible, as long as they are not using objectionable or offensive language. Remember everybody, keep the comments clean. Yes, we all have a right to free speech. But it’s nice to be civil too.
Finally, since posts have to be manually approved, posts submitted in the late hours of the day often don’t go up until the following morning since we don’t have someone monitoring the comments 24/7. So if you post something at 11:55pm, please be patient. The fact that it did not go up immediately is censorship, it is due to the fact that the person moderating this board (usually me) is probably asleep or not glued to their computer.
Thanks for all the responses though. Take care everyone and keep posting!
PRL
There is no way this man could have acted alone. Follow the money,this should reveal who else has been involved. Are there no brains on wall street any more, only thieves? Now I read they are trying to sell his other firm. Is this another cover up, while investigators are trying to solve the puzzle? What is going on here?
It has hit here (Hartford) as one of the major donors to the Children’s Advocacy Center has lost their ability to fulfill their annual grants to support this agency which works to help abused and neglected children.
Actually, investors care. Of course, the psycological impact doesn’t show in short term stock movements.
The cummulative impact of Madoff, bailout fiascos, mortgage mess has been to destroy investor confidence in the market; we have moved from “buy & hold” to “sell & hold”.
Also on your site is “Good news when this bubble pops”. Combine that with “Investors don’t care about Madoff” — Wow, a great indictor we have more pain to come. Thank you, because it takes months to prepare.
I personally think that the investment industry has a real problem with trust which in turn has it teetering on the brink of destruction. I ask who in his right mind, at this time, would use an investment company to manage their money. I ask, couldn’t one do just as well by ones self rather than risk using a bank, or investment company. Why let a stranger steal your money. When the worse that could happen if one managed their own funds is simply lose it. I personally would rather take that risk then have someone steal my money and feed me a bunch of nonsense about supply and demand. I personally think that the investment industry if it survives will undergo profound changes. I believe that if the industry is to survive it must institute strict codes of conduct. I personally beleive that their is a total loss of trust by the people (who are clients) in this industry.
People are saying that ‘It’s all legal’… But it is not right – morally or ethically. Sure, maybe they won’t end up in court, but someone else will be eating my Xmas dinner this year.
I’ve said it before, America has been infiltrated by criminally, fraudulent ‘money experts’ who have been allowed to wreck their havoc while those who should have been regulating finance have been either asleep or in bed with these criminals.
Will anything be done? I think not.
What should be done? The ‘regulators and the Wall Street Gurus’ should be thrown into jail and their assets seized.
Why should America be afraid of terrorists when the whole country can be brought down through their banks?
Let this be a lesson for all time.
Money and growth can’t be made out of nothing or rubbish book-keeping.
If it is too good to be true, then someone is ripping someone else off.
The market may be up a couple of percentage points since the story broke, but on how much volume? I suspect many individual investors are stunned, numb, demoralized and disheartened by what appears to be a rigged and corrupt financial system. Not to mention the hundreds of billions of TARP money being given to AIG and the banks that lost billions and are planning on giving bonuses with taxpayers’ money! It makes me sick. What a sap I feel like as I watch savers get punished so the reckless and corrupt can be bailed out. Oh, and right, while we’re at it let’s punish the autoworkers and suppliers.
I feel that as taxpayers we should bail out all of the losers in the Madoff Ponzi Scheme. We can use Wall Street logic and chicanery without harming my fellow workers and taxpayers. I suggest repaying them – dollar for dollar (that way there are no tax loses) with the toxic debt acquired through TARP.
Hello! Is anyone listening???? Wall Street is self-absorbed and dealing with their own “Greed Issues!” Every rich person is trying to tailor their budget to exclude their “maid or gardner!” What a hassle!
However, the big issue is how to confine your money to overseas accounts, credit cards and securities trading? without letting the IRS in on the deal!
Many large financial trading companies make a practice of issuing their clients’s Tax returns. WHAT IF THEY DON:T ISSUE ONE!???? The law of 1974 says that they don’t have to report anything before 1978! GREAT! Are they withholding tax returns????
I have seen it before, but now????
Believe me, the reason there was no reaction from the “little” investor is due to the fact the we all already know that Wall St. is more Bull St. than anything else. It is a fraternity of greedy and disgraceful individuals doing whatever they can do behind closed doors without anyone finding out. We don’t care about this Ponzi scheme b/c we were lucky enough to have been to insignificant enought to not have been included in such a fraud. In this case, it is mainly the rich who lost, as they were swindled by “one of their own”.
Nevertheless, I would like to state what I have stated many times in the past. We are in this position because our government is corrupt. If this is not a fact, please explain to me how the following could be true: 1) The credit card business prohibits the senate committee, run by an incompetent fool (Dobbs), from controlling government sanctioned loan sharking (yes rate – jacking, hey didn’t we condemn the Mafia for this!!!!) 2) We gave AIG (and other Wall St. gangsters or idiots, pick your favorite) 135 Billion, yes Billion dollars w/o strings attached even though >90% of the public petitioned their congressmen and senators to not give away this money. Most unforgivable is the insolence of the Senate. These fools approve the bail out first pass. At least the congress had the decency to reject the bailout on first pass. 3) Now that it comes to helping working class Americans – Yep, you got it, the same Senators which frivolously gave $135B to AIG now request that the American Automobile Manufacturing companies (sound strange, we still manufacture something in this country – our politicians didn’t give this away yet????) which employ >2million Americans explain exactly why they need a $14B L O A N. Sure a noble cause, but certainly one which should also have been demanded of AIG, Citicorp (credit card mafia), etc… 4) Lastly, at the risk of boring you to death – another branch of the mafia – sorry folks, but there is no other name, as details of what actually goes on come out —> The unbridled greed (similar to Wall St) of the unions, in this case, specifically the UAW. These folks need to be reigned in, remember, the year is 2009 on your time machine, not 1959. These guys, UAW, have created idle teams, job banks, and rules that make hucksters look like angels. In other words, I have to pay $30-40 / hr to have a worker sit idly by b/c I can not ask this individual to work on something new or different.
So, to conclude, do your best to stop these old school fools / fraternities / good ole boy clubs, whatever the hell you want to call them from ruining what is left of the country.
Go vote when you can, and never forget what these “Senators” (not public servants, but employees of high paying special interest groups) and “Congresspeople” have done. VOTE THESE PEOPLE OUT OF OFFICE! IF you are pissed off enough, IMPEACH them!!! Didn’t these same fools try to impeach the President of the United States for an affair with an intern? Which of the events which occurred cause more damage?!?!
What is 50 billion ? Look at the bailouts reaching over a trillion . Just greedy people anyhow. He will die in prison and a lot of people will end up getting hurt . Hurt as in having to sell their summer mansion in the Hamptons perhaps . Life goes on !
Back Again! Bernie Madoff is not our biggest problem==it is the banks and the financial brokers who are trying for the worldwide “individual PENSION funds” that we have to worry about! Start looking at WHO is selling this to you, WHERE do they come from and WHY is their investment so MUCH BETTER than someone elses? The banks that are putting their funds in the CAYMAN ISLANDS, the OFF SHORE accounts and simulating the SWISS BANKS should be a start in investigating where the MONEY is going! I have contacted the Interpol and the FBI and we have a bunch of people running arounding asking “Where is the Money?????”
WHO IS STOPPING THE INVESTIGATIONS?
WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE CASES?
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE?
WE NEED A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO THIS CORRUPTION and ALSO INTO THE RETIREMENT SYSTEM ITSELF.
HELP! THE SMALL INVESTOR IS TIRED OF THE CORRUPTION! (My opintion only)
We are being censored by the minute: I have a blog at 3:36 p.m.; 10:07 p.m. and 11:02 p.m. Apparently, someone doesn’t like the content and has erased the blogs! Does it amaze you? Not I! I have been in Federal Court too long to be amazed at anything that goes on—We read the laws, we understand the laws, but they apparently don’t apply! What is going on in our financial world????!!! Let me hear from you…..
Ahh, the lure of more money. The banks and investment houses lure people with “returns” in order to let them use thier money so they can make money off your money, people give it too them because they want more money. Ahh,the want for more and more is the American way! Everybody climb on board!! Yeehaaa.
Who would give hundreds of thousands and millions to the same company to invest? That’s just insane.
If I had a substantial amount of money I would bury it in a hole in the cement in my basement and cement back over it, I wouldn’t put a single dime in a bank or anywhere else. The banks have conditioned us to put all out money in the bank because they say that is the only place that is “safe” and where it will “grow”. HA HA HA! We are all Fools!!!
My money is safe in my wallet, nowhere else. I suggest everyone else do the same because this is not the end of it. They are still out there after MORE of what little everyone has left. Where does all the money disappear to anyway? You’ll never know!! Ask George Bush, He Knows, better check his and Cheneys off-shore accounts subsidized by Haliburton and the rest of the war mongers, they have a TON of our dough from the great “Operation Iraq Rip-Off Machine”
Oh yeah, don’t forget it’s the “law” to pay taxes, so keep giving 30-40% of your earnings to Uncle Sam so He can give it to the same banks that already just stole all of your money, now they get double!!! HAAAAAAA!
Anyone getting the picture yet? People who try to make money on their money get what they deserve! Greed, greed, greed, for risk, risk, risk. Just hold on to what you have and don’t ever let anyone else touch it. Risk is exactly what it is, look it up on the dictionary, it’s pretty clear.
Pull all of your cash out of the bank, sell all of your stocks and bonds and hide it all in the safe place of your choosing. Let the dirty banks fail already, we don’t need them or investment brokers, you will loose everything if you continue to support them with YOUR MONEY. Everyone got set up just like the Madoff guy did to alot of people. Don’t you think the Great Wall Street Devaluation in November was a Ponzi Scheme??? All of Wall Street was in on it and no one is going to jail, instead the Fed Gvmt just gave them 700 billion exit prize for a job well done. Oh yeah, YOUR 700 billion.
I forgot to add (THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY) but I do have proof for all of these allegations! Latest comment is at 10.07 p.m. Merry Christmas! I hope that you can sleep at night with all of the billions that you have stolen from the small investors!
These investors who didn’t bother to do “due dilgence” in investing their millions, who just took advice from other millionaires better not think for a minute about asking for a taxpayer bailout, that will be when the real anger is seen.
Wall Street, and that includes the stock market, and mega financial corporations such as AIG,Lehman Bros, etc., etc., and even bank holding corporations, is made up of money changers.
And if you look in (college)Macroenomics textbooks and Microeconomics textbooks you won’t find any mention of CDSwaps,short selling, hedge funds, etc., etc. They were devised by money changers so they could siphon more and more money out of the financial system.
As the government shuts these schemes down — and even ponzi scams — the money changers will invent new schemes. Remember Milken and his junk bond scheme. You don’t hear about junk bonds anymore. They have new names for that scheme.
Sad to say, but as the saying goes put your money under the mattress and smile.
The market has been shrugging off all bad economic news because the Fed keeps telling the market they will not let things fail! Why fear anything? Why fear the fraud of Madoff? Why fear unemployment? Why fear bad balance sheets anywhere? As long as Super Fed stops the market from falling by throwing Trillion dollar solutions at every problem that surfaces, we will likely see more of the same….”irrational exuberance”!
Madoff’s $50B pales in comparison to the Trillions that have been siphoned out of our economy by the unregulated ‘phony money’ (toxic waste) that Bush allowed into our monetary system and now needs to be purged. The Wall Street thieves of course paid themselves with real money from the Fed and are continuing to do so from the funds Paulson made available with no strings. Now our dollar will be so watered down for the taxpayers and our Chinese creditors that don’t bail, that our grandkids will never know what prosperity is!
“. . .Merrill Lynch a reputable company?. . .” Puleassse! See my imput at 3:36 pm on 12/18/08.
Merrill Lynch doesn’t know:
-closing statements
-portfolios
-uses “journal entries” to close an account
-uses 20 plus brokers on accounts–some phony!
-sells securities without your permission!
can’t find documents after “7-years” when their company policy states 8 years!!!!
– can’t find your account because they change the name by adding spaces, initials, other words, etc.
– doesn’t listen to TROs, subpoenas (he doesn’t work here), Motions to compel, doesn’t serve subpoenas on directors, doesn’t follow the law!
= COURTS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS ALREADY MADE
Merrill Lynch has “fraud committees” but no one attends them!
One person holds the key to the custodian, the fraud committees, the “hay is this legal?” committee and goes on vacation!’
Mad? Madoff? Whatever, it is the same corruption that caused ENRON and it will not go away until SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING!!
I lost my entire reitrement account, my kids’ UGMA accts and they lost their inheritance because NO ONE CAN find the accounts. This is a financial institution entrusted with the care of your FUTURE??!! It is a corrupt system and needs to be changed!
I have taught high school business for 19 years and I have NEVER seen practices like this! Please give us a break!
Pete from Austin seems to say it best to me. I think it’s sad that opening tomorrows newspaper and learning about some hedge-fund manager donating his fortune to charity would be more shocking then finding out he wasted away all that charity’s money. Some will call it bad-news fatigue, others might call it developed insensitivity. Either way, this story just adds the long list of things that are wrong with our system. Too bad we can’t find the beginning any more to start our “line by line” approach.
It is difficult to sympathize with the victims of Madoff’s Ponzi scheme. Even a novice in financial management would know that a return of 10-12% annual return, especially from a scheme solely administered by an individual, when the US Treasury bonds and even less secure bank CD’s fetch not more than 4-5%, is very suspect unless it is offered by a well-established mutual fund with a proven track record. This is a self-inflicted injury born out of sheer greed and the morons who entrusted their savings to Madoff fully deserve what they have been subjected to. The tears that are being shed on their behalf may be better reserved for victims of natural disasters like earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis and wild fires.
They need to investigate the Fund of Funds guys. Did these people receive kick-backs from Bernie? The Fund of Funds were meant to do Due Diligence on managers (like Madoff). They must have been paid to keep silent.
just of many more money scandals that makes me more leery of trusting fund managers to handle my “hard earned ” life savings . I saved my money while building my own portfolio . I may not be a millionaire but with no debt and close to 1/4 of a million dollars , a pension and paid healthcare etc. I won’t need to or have someone else “shooting craps” with my money . Kind of reminds me of the ” American Greed ” series . Just as trillions of dollars were lost from many investors portfolios over the past year, many of those retirement accounts were handled by fund managers . Many of those clients close to retirement won’t be able to recoup their losses without having to put off retirement . If you have an employer-sponsored 401k that’s web based it would be a good idea to learn how to use it . Reading the information on that site is very helpful as far as learning how to manage your own portfolio and saving your money . It paid off for me .
“. . .a reputable broker like Merrill Lynch. . .” Puleassse read my comment at 3:36 p.m.!!
If they are sooooo reputable, why won’t they give me MY statements on MY accounts? Why do they use phony brokers? Why do they use “journal entries” to move money out of an account? Why do they only give “sub accounts in discovery but not the main account? Why do they transpose account numbers? Why do they add words to an account listing, add spaces or take spaces awy when under a subpoena? Why do they give me other people’s accounts to cover months and years? Why do they SANCTION only MY lawyers? Why don’t they know “closing statements?” Why can’t they find a portfolio on a dead client that has over 50 plus “managed” accounts and had MLON (Merrill Lynch on Line? WHY doesn’t the FBI look into Money Laundering at Merrill Lynch? Why can’t they give a statement on our accounts when we have been asking for years (subpoenas, motions to compel and certified letters) and they say on their web site that they “lock down the accounts” at the slightest HINT of a lawsuit? Why do they say they only keep statements 7 years when these are retirement accounts? Company policy is eight years! Retirement accounts are around for 40 to 60 years!
This is my money, my children’s money and my husband’s separate property which belongs to his brothers/sisters/mom. Merrill Lynch doesn’t own it–they do!
I think the guy was murdered for his money, but no one will investigate! Not in Norway or NEW YORK! WHY????!!!! Old Bernie and Marc Dreier are only TWO criminals on Wall Street! There are many more who make this all possible. Thank your elected officials, your bankers, your sweep accounts, your MLOL portfolio, and their new CEO who FINALLY decided that NOW is not a good time to ask for a $10 MILLION dollar BONUS! Ask the General Counsel WHY she won’t look into the FRAUD that is being conducted under her own nose? Ask them? No one cares as long as it doesn’t affect them! I have seen my neighbors harmed in the ENRON debacle, the other tech companies and I am really tired of everyone looking the other way. The evidence is there. One only has to look at it to SEE it!
I am a retired business high school teacher of 19 years and I have NEVER seen business conducted in this manner. We used to fail kids for doing this, but now we have to give them a 50 for nothing turned in. Can’t make them feel bad! The kids are learning from their parents–this is a sad day!
I am working full time because these people stole my entire retirement life savings, my kid’s UGMA accounts, and their inheritance!
Mad, Madoff, whatever! YOU BET I AM! These poeple are CROOKS and DESERVE to be in PRISON! When is someone going to follow up on my “complaint!?” The Good Ol’ Boy system STILL WORKS. Ladies, this is how they get around the “community property laws!” This is DISCRIMINATION! Look at their web site, they tell how to get around their spouse in listing their accounts. (See Privacy Pledge page 2).
We don’t need new regulations–only people who will follow the law in the first place!
May the Christmas season bring some some sense of what is “right and what is wrong!” God Bless everyone and have a Merry Christmas!”
I’d love to be the guy delivering pizza to his apartment, which is Apartment 12-A at 133 East 64th Street in Manhattan.
Dubya’s pardons list will include Conrad Black, another convicted fraudster…if Bernie Madoff was smart he would have turned himself in last year, gotten convicted, and then with a pardon, he’d be out by Jan 20/09!
To think that the stock market is purely driven by the reactions of investors to the news is absurd. The stock market is heavily manipulated in ways most people will never know about. These kinds of news stories are also manipulative. Sure, huge events like 911 have an effect, but to micro-analyze stock market performance vs. the news of the day is more an attempt to spin the news, using fear or greed as the truncheon or carrot, than to acually analyze what is happening in the financial markets.
I find it very interesting in regards to the Madoff scandal that there is a real possibility that investors who received money from Madoff’s various bogus investment programs might in fact be nailed under the legal doctrine of “fraudulent conveyance.” Apparently that aspect of the law could force the recipients of any money from the Madoff hedge funds to pay it back into the common pot for redistribution for anyone who could prove they were defrauded. I just wonder if that same principle could be applied to force the return of those vast sums of money, usually in the form of bonuses, that the corrupt banks and brokerage houses paid to their employees in the course of selling mortgage backed securities and derivatives. On the face of it, those financial instruments were no more sound investments than Madoff hedge funds. Perhaps there might be some recourse for the government and the taxpayer to get back some of the money now spent on bailing out Wall Street’s various swindles that were on a good deal bigger scale than even Madoff’s operation.
Well, it looks like the SEC did catch him, but it took a long time.
Now, we need to punish him and his collaborators severely as a lesson to other crooks. There are so many crooks that we can’t police all of them; harsh punishment is the only true deterrence.
Next, we need to make sure that there is no bailout for either Madoff or his investors. Actual losses are the only way to remind people of the risk of loss of investing in unregulated, unregistered investments.
Finally, we need some system by which ordinary people like us can report suspicious behavior so that we can start catching crooks earlier, before they have done so much damage.
Why is this criminal out on bail? He should be sentenced to a medicaid nursing home for the rest of his life.
We’re so used to the powers that be, both political and financial, stealing whatever isn’t nailed down that we are immune to the shock and audacity of it. No, we’d rather force union auto workers to make three dollars an hour less. That will solve all our problems. MORONS.
He is a thief like virtually all of the investment bankers are thieves. They make their fortunes on the backs of people who actually do things and produce things. Abraham Lincoln said all capital originates from labor. He was the last honest republican. Investment managers and bankers do not produce wealth. They are only parasites who siphon it off. It is said that behind every great fortune lies a great crime. The greatest crime is children starving while these gold plated con artists on Wall Street sip their champagne. There is enough for everyone on this Earth if there were not a few giant hogs called kings, princes, churchmen and capitalists.
Good name…..Madoff…..like in Madoff made off with all your money!
Caveat Emptor….boys and girls! You don’t invest with a guy named Bernie you place bets on sporting events with a guy named Bernie!
It not just Madoff. All the other bad news are being brush off by investors.
I am afraid this is the next bubble. Everyone thinks they are a contrarian and betting that we have reach bottom.
Which is of course another speculation. It could be the bottom, I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone know.
When the selling do start, there will be another stampede and we will have another article “Why investors don’t care about Obama’s stimulus plan”
The stock market is itself a ponzi scheme. The only reason stocks are going up is the believe that it will go higher. Fundamental doesn’t support the recent uptick.
The one thing I’m most shocked about is how no one of these multimillionaire investors didn’t know that Madoff wasn’t clearing their trades through a reputable broker like Merrill Lynch? That’s such a basic bit of information. And why didn’t the supposedly innocent employees of Madoff know that there wasn’t a reputable clearing house for the company’s trades? Someone needs to ask a lot of very basis questions here!
Where was the oversight, due diligence, and checks / balances? Here are a few
- no separation between asset custodian and trader
- no large accounting firm audit with independant asset verification
- no SEC follow-up on allegations (perhaps more done behind the scenes)
- no standards for due diligence
- no connection between market and investment reporting (put / call contracts exceeding market volume)
- family members serving as chief compliance officer
Perhaps high net worth investors should engage their own monitors (CPA, tax lawyers, etc.) in the less than stringently regulated private equity / hedge fund world
Here is why I am not up in arms about Madoff.
There is little real information that I have seen as to the actual methods of his operation, and I wouldn’t really understand them anyway, but:
I am under the impression from the way it is talked about that the main reason it wasn’t so hard to cover up was because it was almost legal. After all, we have all had a lot of lessons this last year into this new realization; Much of the financial system that has failed the last year was LEGAL, (but in practice) pyramid schemes.
All those huge huge bank losses that are costing us 100s of billions and trillions were because they had created huge amounts of money on paper that had no real anything behind it.
Why get all in a Tizzy about Madoff’s piddly 50bl? It sounds like his fund ran like an investment portfolio in all ways EXCEPT for what the portfolio was invested in, which was an out and out ponzi scheme. And as long as he could keep investors coming in as fast as he needed to pay out real money (rather then simply changing the number in the computer), it worked fine. (And he filed his papers and paid his taxes like a real fund, so I currently understand.)
The problem was he ran out of money and when it did the entire thing fell apart.
That’s just what happened with AIG and CitiBank, right? If it was different, someone explain to me how.
We now use the expression “to Google it”. The newest expression will be to “get Madoffed” for the ultimate rip-off or fleecing.
What is hard to understand his children worked for the firm were they educated and didn’t know what was going on that hard to believe. If they were there homes and property should be taken just for being stupid. They will have to get a real job. The government has to get there act together im just waiting to see how many will be jumping out of windows on wall street.
Thanks Lovely in Newport for reminding me. I don’t know what I was thinking, and during this season nonetheless. So, if you could just have your people get in touch with their people so they could get in touch with our people at their earliest convenience, a better time could be arranged for this and we all would be grateful. :}
The names change but the game remains the same. A fool and his money are soon parted. In God we trust, in Wall Street we bust.
Back during the Great Depression, when Franklin Delano Roosevelt became President, he refused to “bail out” the banking system, because the only way to get rid of the con artists is to deny them more money. It took a long time.
But the people who studied the Great Depression, hoping to avoid a repeat of the several-year-long extent of it, decided that “more liquidity” was the proper solution. The con artists of the last twenty years knew this, and set about their schemes to remove the laws and regulations that were enacted during the Great Depression, so they could create a huge mess in their favor. For example, that’s why no one is going to get convicted for the Credit Default Swap crisis – it was perfectly legal.
The criminal cases and civil cases against Bernie Madoff will be complicated by the meager investor-protection laws.
I learned from reading history outside what was required by high school and college classes that some rich people are always playing games trying to rip off other rich people. But to fund their schemes, they find ways to con less-affluent people out of their money. These conniving brats always holler for deregulation, because if there are no laws to disallow their schemes, they don’t face criminal trial or civil restitution.
So former Senator Phil Gramm – this is his legacy. Former Senator Newt Gringich – this is his Contract On America. Former President Ronald Reagan – the goverment is the problem. These three people obviously lived protected lives, have never been ripped off by con artists.
Many people are putting their money into US Treasuries as they figure they will at least get the money back. People are abandoning the stock market, abandoning hedge funds, abandoning small brokerages and money managers. That’s less money for the con artists. Until the bailout money provided to the Financial Empires is returned to the Federal Government, us little guys are staying away from Wall Street and their schemes.
Do I care about Madoff – no, because he is a New York con artist. I’m not in New York, there are con artists like him here in Austin, Texas, hiding and planning their schemes, and the press here can barely keep up with what they have already reported about.
It’s mostly fabulously wealthly investors who trusted their money to Madoff. Run of the mill investors have nothing to fear. Small time investors have never heard of Madoff. Most conservative money managers never trusted Madoff anyways.
Who is worse? The criminals…Or the politicians who stopped enforcing the laws? Or is it the people who voted for those politicians, knowing they stood for lawlessness, and so blinded ignorance and spite they voted for them anyway. Let’s be honest here: Americans deserve this and worse, and it is going to get much worse before it gets better.
50 Billion! Wait until the 55 Trillion in CDS schemes starts unraveling. Just remember if you are going to tell a lie tell a BIG lie.
For years the small guy was always losing I guess we have no money left so he had to go for rich. Isn’t time we start to do it right
Isn’t Madoff a lot like some Wall Street firms that were bailed out? They were paying dividends over the last year to their shareholders even though they were failing and had no money, and when they did get taxpayer money, they paid more dividends. Are taxpayers the last ones in to a Wall Street Ponzi scheme? It doesn’t look like much of a difference to me.
Theyre all liers & thieves, and people are getting so used to being surrounded by liers & thieves that they just dont care anymore. We have a govt of liers & thieves, we’re already being surveilled & wiretapped and if we try to say anything about it we can get put on a nofly list and we don’t even have Constitutional rights as American citizens anymore, so every one just shuts up & keeps their head down & hopes they dont lose anything important to them, ‘too bad about all those other people getting screwed, but better them than me’
If you think I’m exaggerating then your’e deluded.
It has reinforced my belief that they all crocked including our elected government officials. I have taken all of my money out of the stock market and yes I am not making much of a return on it but those people can’t touch it any more. I had rather put in under my matters right now.
We bail out the banks, credit card Company’s and Wall Street and all they do is raise your interest rates & pay less on interest they pay out. We are on the bottom.
Go figure. I am in the wrong business.
Disgusted.
MG Muscatine Iowa
The SEC and its employees should be held collectively and personally liable and be vunerable to lawsuits just like other auditors such as Arthur Andersen.
As far as Madoff, I wonder how much of that was mafia or union money and when he will get a bullet in his head.
As I watch the economy unfold, I have no place to run. I have no stones to throw. I can look only at facts from the outside and of course there are more to unfold. From Dante Alighieri’s Inferno, maybe ones of this nature should be tried for treason against the nation. “Long live the King”
Most of the people who lost money are millionaires. Madoff was paying them 10-12% per year and they already got it back in 10 years. Why cry.
My goodness. First people attack poor Mr. Madoff and now the SEC. Its sad that everyone feels free to attack people at the SEC while the SEC staff are on their traditional extended holiday break. Why don’t you all wait until the SEC staff return from their well deserved break and then you can criticize them all you want. At least then the SEC staff will be in a position to defend themselves. I understand that they return to work after Martin Luther King’s birthday. I’d give them a day or two thereafter to let them catch up on their mail. Fair’s fair. This still is America after all.
As a member of a 401-k fund handled by Madoff, and a loser of 11 years worth of retirement money (not “investments”, not “capital”… retirement money). I have come to view this whole disaster as Business As Usual in this day & age.
This is the Kleptocracy’s last chance to grab what they can and run, before there’s nothing left to grab.
I agree that there’s no possible way Bernie Madoff did all this himself, or even with the collusion of his Potemkin auditing firm.
Stealing tens of billions of dollars over years, keeping multiple sets of books, sending out tax statements for money that didn’t exist, all under the supposedly unaware nose of a major government agency – these are all activities that only the government itself (or organizations working with the government’s blessing) could pull off with impunity.
Tell me if my tinfoil hat is showing, but this looks like a case where Conspiracy Theory is more believable than Coincidence Theory.
I have read most of the comments and agree with all of the things that have been said. No oversight, or actions by the SEC, accounting firms, lawyers and all the Rich intelligent people doing business with Madoff could see this coming?!!! Looks like greed has turned a blind eye to this situation as well as the virtual collapse of our economy. The Bush policies have ruined this country by letting the Good old boys do whatever they want regardless of the end result.
Augie,
You are absolutely right! Lets sharpen our pitch forks and light our torches.
There’s lots of corruption to rout out!
WE SHOULD ALL HATE WALL STREET IT IS MOSTLY FULL OF CRIMINALS!
Nobody cares because it is not news. The financial system is corrupt and the SEC means scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours. Both the Republicans and Democrats are enablers and probably accessories as are the judges. 10 months in Club Fed, commuted because they do not have facilities to retstring his tennis racket.
Ummmmm, here’s a reason they dont care, because most of the people who run Wall Street now ARE Bernie Madoffs. The REAL ponzi scheme here is not Madoff’s outfit — though that might be the most egregious example, the ponzi scheme is the entirety of Wall Street, essentially a confidence game or a casino anyway. Moreover, since our economy makes very little productive material of any kind, you could say that AMERICA is itself a ponzi scheme. We all shuffle money around, but without underlying asset value being produced, we are engaged in a con.
So basically, they have shrugged this off because they think they can get away with it. The Wall Street types wont care about fraud on Wall Street until we take our torches and pitchforks down there and politely ask them to.
Just one more example of the SEC not doing its job. The SEC commissioner job is simply a place for someone, favored by a current administration, to make a big salary and do little to earn it.
Why should a big investor care. This shows that the SEC is easily corruptible and this is in their favor.
Don’t care? I don’t think so!!!! The Madoff ripoff is symptomatic of a system run amuk, and of yet another supposed watchdog agency (SEC) again asleep at the wheel. Just another confirmation to me that I was wise to withdraw totally from the market two years ago.
What kind of journalism is this? Of course investors care, and of course this will give the masses more reason to stay on the sidelines. The reason the stock market didn’t crash on this is because interest rates were pulled down to nothing.
I’ll echo what others have said — it is the tip of the iceberg. Interestingly, the DTCC says it cleared 1.86 quadrillion in transactions in 2007; That gives a scale of the amount of money changing hands. So apply your own “not Kosher” factor to predict the extent of the rot.
…I am waiting to see the naked short selling cancer to be fully exposed.
I am totally appalled at this scheme that bilked some people out of their lifelong savings. On the news the other night, it showed an older retired couple who had been saving all of their lives for their retirement, and now they are losing their home. And Madoff gets to sit at home, in a multi-million dollar apartment, under house arrest. I do not understand why he should not be responsible for giving back the money that he stole from these investors. Let his bank account be emptied, let him lose his home, if that is what it takes to get the money back to the people he stole from. And if he does end up in prison, I hope that it is a dirty cell with a lumpy cot and exposed toilet, just like other criminals who do not have his kind of money to send him to a plush white-collar crime facility. And it seems to me that instead of the money that it costs to house these criminals in prison coming out of taxes, he should have to pay the daily expenses for housing, staffing, and all else that is involved. I don’t know why the stock market has not reflected the outrage, but as a taxpayer, this is just another outrageous example of the wealthy getting away with extreme theft and the middle-class taxpayers being left to pay for it.
So where was the SEC ? What happened to the adaged ‘If it seems to good to be true, then it is not true.’ Greed wins every time.
No way did he act alone. Family members, company employees – especially those doing the books would all have known about it. They’re all crooks and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. There should be no bail. Let them live in poverty for a while as some of thier customer will have to.
No different than what Dick Fuld did to us in Lehman Brother, their are just no morals and values of common shareholders, only self interest.
IS ANYONE AWAKE? or will we let pure greed destroy our great America? Its the same old thing! These cats and the SEC are complicit if defrauding the public trust. DARN (IN)JUSTICE SYSTEM NEEDS TO PULL ITS HEAD OUT PROSECUTE AND PUT PEOPLE IN PRISON!
Our legislators need a big SPANKING! We MUST HAVE new laws with teeth but once again people shrug this off? WRITE YOUR REPS AND COMPLAIN! What’s really needed is these “institutions” need to be leveled with bulldozers and started over again with REAL regulation. Some need to stay closed for good. There is no free lunch and the securities markets and BANKS will always be a parasite on the REAL working economy. Wake up or get ripped off again, and again and again!
if someone told you to invest your money with warren buffet, would you question it? in the inner circles of high society, that is the kind of reputation this theif had.. i suspect he’s taking the fall for this and to avoid involving his sonse.. if they can’t place madoff in a place where the is constant threat of sodomy, they should at least jail his sons.. that i think will hurt him more that losing his money.
I think SEC should investigate all those also who invested with Madoff to find out how/where they accumulated their money. Was it acquired legallay, used for legal purposes, or was it questionable money? Obviously, Madoff fooled everyone and lied and cheated but what about those who were following him? are they crooks too?
Doesn’t this qualify him for a Government Bailout? Only in America do “We the People” pay to make the theives whole again and no one goes to jail.
Why isn’t this a bigger story? $50billion is more than the auto industry is asking for and yet it is not being well covered. The lack of due diligence by investors, zero controls and audits. Banks have written off less and garnered more attention. All the BS that goes on in Finance is incredible. They need all those smart people to keep up the ruse.
I believe most investors now realize that the entire Financial system, the regulators and the Congress are incompetent, or knowingly or unknowingly enmeshed in many Ponzi schemes
This is America, for God’s sake! Applaud the man for his skill at the art of fraud. He is right up there with all of the Wallstreet theives , banks, credit card companies, insurance companies, real estate brokers and greedy home buyers. After all, “In Fraud We Trust.”
as the saying goes…More Money More Problems. Carpet Bombing Ben is printing more $$$ at near 0% rate. Let the investors refill their funds! The whole economic system is a ponzi scheme!
Madoff is a total dirtbag and it’s an indictment of our legal system that he’s not in jail and walking around free during the day. He should be in an orange jumpsuit with the rest of the criminals awaiting trial because he stole from people. Many of the other comments are unfortunately correct about this being the tip of the iceberg and it’s all just another example of the hypocrisy, thievery, and deception that perpetuates Wall St, The Fed, and our Legal system. I would love to have 5 minutes in a windowless room, locked from the outside, with Bush, Paulson, & Madoff. Four of us enter, only one of us would be able to leave and let me know where to meet everyone for happy hour.
There is no way this guy pulled this off alone. 1) Where’s the cash? You can barely manager that amount of $$$ much less hide it “alone”. 2) IF he lost it, how’d he lose it? No reports of bad trades, etc.. just gone. 3) As the former chair of NASDAQ and a Wall Street “legend” this guy had global connections that most people will never have in the financial world. This cash is sitting somewhere offshore, his sons damn sure knew what was going on, he gave them a couple hundred mill to live on until he gets out in 2-3 years. Notice this guy isn’t in front of the camera constantly saying he can’t wait for his day in court to explain or even that he’s sorry. Just a slight smile like “oh well”. It doesn’t even make sense, why would a guy with this reputation and financial smarts wake up one morning and decide “Hey, I’m going to screw the most wealthy and powerful people in this country…INCLUDING A U.S. SENATOR. Come on people, this was no ponzi scheme, ponzi schemes don’t even last this long! 20+ years??!!
The magistrate judge gave him “extra time to make bail!?” He is home shreading documents! Milken only served 18 months of his long term by the same court!
Corruption goes from the bottom to the top. These self-regulated companies, banks and funds are above the law and no one is enforcing the law. Just look the other way seems to be their motto. $$ is all they care about.
Watch the next scandal–your individual retirement accounts. When the companies refuse to give you your own statements, you have a problem! I have tried to get mine for 5-1/2 years in court. Subpoenas, motions to compel, complaints to the SEC, the NASD, the NYSE (now joined) and no one cares! The lawyer for the other side was with Dreier, LLC. He didn’t give the statements, the court didn’t make him and GWG gave him a Summary Judgment as a reward.
My opinion is that they are all in bed together. The head of the NYSE is now CEO of a brokerage firm, the last two heads of the Treasury Fraud Unit are employed by this same company, and their alumni go into top jobs at neighboring banks. One person has the key to the “fraud committees” so don’t bother reporting them. The SEC had over 70,000 complaints this year but that is down 1% from last year! Great job!
We are better to put our money under the mattress as it will be there in the morning. Wall Street is corrupt!
(Again, my opinion, the only thing I have left after they stole my entire savings.)
Why are we worried about this terd?? I think we should have more feelings for the possible/impending layoffs that are supposed to be temporary with the families in the auto industry. Are the sufferings of the overly rich more important than the middle or lower class working families. Oh yes people poor Mr Bigtime had to layoff one of the maids in this very unstable economy. Lets all focus on the fat cat sob story. get over it.
My husband and I have country clubbed with the Madoffs for years. For all of the “laws” he supposedly “broke”, he clearly meant well (like most people on Wall Street). I recall about a decade or so ago, Mr. Madoff had said to me and my husband that he wanted to make the most people happy before he died. And I guess he found the best way to make the most people happy was by providing them with inflated investment statements showing steady albeit phony profits. Was he so wrong in doing this? Forget now the minor issue of the money and where it’s all gone. Didn’t Mr. Madoff make his investers feel happy and secure, some for upwards of a decade? I do hope all he gets is a suspended sentence. After all, given his age, a sentence of imprisonment for any length is a death sentence. No one should be sentenced to death for a mere finanical crime.
For an individual that is 70 years old, someone who is probably someone’s grandfather it is very low. How can this guy go around knowing that he is stealing money from everyone in town, including charities that trusted him to manage their money. It is a pure display of greed, carelessness, selfishness and every bad trait a human being could have. He is the lowest of criminals right up there with murderers, rapists, terrorists and serial killers. The amount of damage he’s done to the financial health of those he defrauded is unconceivable. He should spend the rest of his days in prison, and if our laws were more stringent he truthfully deserves the death penalty.
If you can shrug off the fact that a complete flim-flam man can become chairman of NASDAQ, then you must not care about your nestegg.
This guy was posting consistent 12-15% returns for years. Anytime you are promised stock market-like returns with treasury bill-type risk, run, don’t walk away. Same exact thing with the sub-prime mortgage backed securities… How could bundled junk paying 7% be assessed a AAA rating or teasury-like risk? I hate to say it, but much of the blame rests with the investors.
It’s probably not so terribly surprising that the Madoff scandal, as bad as it is, might drop out of the public consciousness. So many people have lost so much in their stock holdings and the value of their homes that a degree of shell shock has settled in. There is a bit of schadenfreude in this case, also, because probably not more than about 5% of the population has the income and asset qualifications to ever qualify to invest in a hedge fund, and a lot that qualify don’t ever do so.
Why don’t I care about Madoff? Because despite the monetary loss he and his clients sustained only due to the volatility of the markets, their retirement is still secured. It’s not like these people are penniless and now have to find jobs like the rest of the 99% of the population. He can still live comfortably and not worry about money for the rest of his life. Just think, if the market didn’t experience such turmoil, Madoff would still be in business and the American people would be none the wiser. What is the most awful thing in this entire situation is not that the American people were duped, but rather regulators like the IRS and the SEC could not fish him out. Nevermind the average person was schemed, if the regulating bodies who are supposed to monitor fraud and tax evasion could not solve this one, then we are all inevitably screwed. This is just the tip of the iceberg. No one person could have acted alone continuing this business. It’s only a matter of time before the public gets to hear who else has been helping Madoff.
We have to keep some crucial things in mind, here. (1) The Madoff
scandal has decimated confidence in fund managers, (2) more than
likely, Madoff wasn’t the only person running a Ponzi scheme, (3) As
soon as the next redemption period opens up for hedge funds, stand
clear of the exit because there’s going to be a stampede of investors
running for the door, and (4) This mass exit will expose the other
ponzi operations that have yet to be uncovered.
In short, anyone who hasn’t been flying straight runs the risk of
becoming exposed very soon. As they are scared out of their minds
right now, they will do anything to squeeze some money out of this
market, even if it’s not fool-proof. They have nothing to lose.
This market can and will do anything over the next several weeks.
But, it ultimately has to come down.
these ponzi schemes would not occur if due diligence was performed by outside auditors hired by the federal government not by the ponzi firm. the way it works now the auditors are going to do a slipshod job because they want to be hired by the ponzi company the next year. All publically trade companies should pay the federal govt a yearly fee and the govt. would assign the auditing firm,case closed no more thieves. oh, madoff should be in jail now and if his sons didn,t know what was going on they probably didn,t finish 1st grade, lock-em up.
Wah, wah, wah! Who in their right mind would believe an entire industry of corrupt liars, crooked bankers, the hypocritical SEC (joke), self-serving congressmen and Senators by placing more money into a system heading down the toilet? The foundation of business is INTEGRITY. The aforementioned have no integrity and people won’t do business with crooks. STOP! with the pathetic moans about revitalizing the economy!!! Where do the crooks interest really lie? That’s where you effect change.
Just another case of the Wall Street and Washington Royalty who are above the laws we mere mortals must obey. Nixon, Regan, and the Bush’s have dismantled virtually all the oversight mechanisms that would prevent this type of occurance. Maybe the Democrats can fix it – then again maybe not…
I just love how they’ve had interviews from people that know him and say “Oh, it’s so unlike him. He was the nicest guy. He’d show up for my children’s weddings/birthdays”… etc. Yeah, sure. If I made off with $50 billion – I’d be a nice guy too!
This guy should be hanging from a little cage slung off the side of the Bear Sterns offices like medieval times. His family should also be investigated and tossed in a cell as well. The Donald brought up a good point; how could a single individual manage and execute a scam of this magnitude on his own? We need to make an example of this guy and anyone associated with this horrible crime.
After reading this article I am really mad! Yes, the SEC missed something here, but to blame the SEC for this is ridiculous. Some of the “smartest” people on Wall Street put their money here.
Now they want to shift the blame on the government, largely because the truth about their “intelligence” has been exposed. Gee, lack of government regulation caused the market to crash initially, because they didn’t regulate us so we had to make decisions with everyone elses money all on our own. We couldn’t be that stupid, as we are CEO’s of major stock companies and clearly that means we don’t ever do stupid things or are driven by personal greed.
Now of course, its mostly their personal fortunes. So now its Gee, the government didn’t catch this guy, so again we are so smart we couldn’t have made this stupid of a mistake!
Cut me a break. And my friends wonder why I pulled all my money, including all my 401K and other investments out of the market three years ago.
Hey, wait, that should qualify me as CEO of a major Wall Street Company, afterall I saw this coming and made money. Doesn’t that make me smarter then all the CEOs and brokers?
Greed is once again at the heart of major financial losses to investors and the investor. What else is new?
The SEC and FINRA regulators are a joke! They close a blind eye to the big billion dollar problems (Enron, WorlCom, Tyco, and now Madoff) but pursue their time “pretending” to help the ordinary investor. They are a joke, they don’t act until its too late, then pretending to care!!!!
The CNN hype about Madorf and now FBN hyping the S&P/GE thing, etc. is the major problem with the market. The hyping of news and trying to influence viewership has to stop. CNBC, FOX and FBN are a major part of the problem. It needs to stop and become more responsible.
It’s hard to have any pity for Mr. Madoff. But he is just what the rest of the scoundrels were hoping for—a whipping boy to draw fire. All the sub-prime lenders, forging loan originators, lobbyists, SEC toadies, congressional leaches, CDO packagers, credit default swap syndicators, and fee-addicted, usurious credit card hustlers will go unprosecuted and receive a bailout for their Ponzi schemes. But this one little parasite will get the entire Library of Congress thrown at him. And let’s not forget the media. It makes a great story. Think of the human angle.
MENSCH A FRAUD!
The least the media incompetents could do would be to rename the Ponzi scheme in Bernie’s honor. Sic ‘em, Rupert.
This guy and all his friends should give up their millions to people who are losing their homes and can’t afford to by food or drugs. Shame on him, he can rot in jail.
since seniors and charities lost everything, I consider this crime to be the same as stealing from orphans.
If I were an investor I would blow his brains out. Now the federal Government will probably bail out these investors too. What I want to know who the hell is going to bail the Taxpayers out?
I think this is the tip of the iceberg. I would bet that there are dozens more investment scams just like this one, some not as large, but devastating. I think we are in for more shocks like this. The American people have been in the dark largely as far as understanding how the investment world really works and runs. I really think he is only one of many scam artists operating today.
Where is the 50 billion dollars? Probably in a numbered account in a Swiss bank, hidden away from U.S. taxes and waiting to be gobbled up by Nadoff’s family and friends.
And the “poor” victims of Nadoff’s scam probably thought they had a good thing going because Nadoff was a good ole guy who was always smiling and was a friend. They gambled, they lost. That’s the way it goes.
Seriously?? $50Billion? Bill Gates doesn’t even have that much! I’m with Dear Jack Cafferty on this, how is it this guy gets to chill at home after posting $10million (which is only 0.02% of the alleged scope of the crime) when far, far, far lesser crimes will cost you nothing less than 5% of the legal amount associated with your crime or indefinite jail time with hard criminals until the “justice” system can get to you?!? And we thought those Nigerian scams were the worst; well there’s a new King Crook now and his title is far, far, far from being contested. I am shocked at how the fledgling financial sector is shrugging this off, and the lack of adept reporters with hidden cameras to boot, exposing, deriding and red-flagging all of these wall street fat-cats as a whole. Seems it’s better to lose $50Billion in partly charitable funds to a familiar face who is greedy and doesn’t need it, than to lose a fraction of that amount to people who are absolutely desperate.
The fact that people lost their life savings, etc. is terrible and Madoff should be severely punished. However, risk exists whether you invest in blue chip stocks or (unknowingly) in a “ponzi” scheme such as Madoff’s. Investors have culpability in this scheme too. If it was not for the greed in wanting a marginally higer return (these people could have all easily survived on a five to six percent returns and perhaps trimmed back their lifestyle), but their own greed and lifestyle demands interfered with the old aggade, “if it sounds too good to be true, it is”.
Sadly enough, the only thing that will happen to this guy will be that he will spend the rest of his life in a prison that is nicer than a five star hotel. Put him in a real prison and let him share a cell with Big Bubba… Let him experience the other side of what he’s done to all his victims !!
Why investor don’t care about Madoff ??
I think Madoff is just one of many event that investor do not care, because they have cash made from the last 10 years profit of low interest. And the current interest rate make them start to throw money again.
I really don’t care that he stole the money of a bunch of millionares. Secretary Paulson stole 700 billion dollars from the taxpayers and gave most of it to his friends at AIG and no one cares about that. Ben Bernacke is stealing everyones savings account and no one cares about that. We are headed for depression and no one cares.
I’ve lost faith in our whole system. Everywhere I turn I see corruption and scandal. The rest of the world must be laughing at our lack of leadership and incompetence. We continue to push our style of democracy on the rest of the world, and to what point? It doesn’t seem to be working well for us, we are quickly becoming Socialists, the government is taking over all the businesses that fail with our tax money and we have no say.
A fund this large with an accounting firm and no certified financial statements. Where was the SEC, the watch dog that is supposed to keep us safe. And there only comment is…..ooops, sorry!
The Super-Rich losing billions to an unscrupulous money manager who moved among them with ease?
I care about the scandal. But the primary reason why I don’t care about the people impacted by the Madoff scandal is, for better or worse, a sense of well-earned retribution for years of Ruling Class cockiness. While the not-so-middle Middle Class struggles to pay its mortgage and education costs, living from paycheck to paycheck, the rich got richer. At last many are brought down to our level. Now, perhaps, they will feel what it’s like for the rest of us.
This is not the charitable feeling I should have, particularly at this time of year. (And many charities, not just a SuperRich oligarchy, are also impacted.) Still, I care less about whether criminal charges will be brought against Madoff rather than hope for a change in policies and/or social environment that allowed him to flourish to begin with.
Whay is this guy still walking the streets as a free man? He only has to spend his nights in his posh apartment in Manhatten. He should immediately be put behind bars with the general population and shoud NEVER be freed again, EVER! The same goes for the Citi fraudster!!!
He must go to prison for LIFE! This man is one of the worst conn artist ever. I feel such sympathy for everyone who lost money because of him, not to mention he also helped to create the severe decrease in our stock market, by his fraudulent actions. We are all sick of the fraud along with nepatism between wall street, Washington politics and those little people on main street. We are fed up with the bad boys and girls. Put them all in prison!!!!!
CNN you seem largely disappointed that you couldn’t make the market crash by reporting the “Madoff” scandal.
What do I think about the Madoff scam?
I think a few pretty big fish lost some money–so, welcome to the club!
I agree with this guy below, with Bush in the white house this country is going to hell, I’m amazed at how much chaos one man can bring to the country, I mean good god this is amazing that one man has single handed destroyed our economy, has made the rest of the world hate us and has killed thousands of civilians and americans.
I’m sorry for those who were duped by him.
Very concerned by the lack of SEC oversight/investigation…even after years of warnings. It just proves there is a good old boy network at these levels of the business….and he was a good old boy.
I hope Carl Icahn was a customer. Great pay back for all the lives he’s ruined of honest hard working airline workers.
How ironic, when Bernie was just a greedy, pretentious, penthouse dwelling low life everyone wanted to be like him and now that he was caught people just want to be like him without getting caught. Wake up America, if our new God is money then this is the behavior we will always get!
I think the reason the market doesn’t react as you might expect is that small traders are up lifted when they hear some of the big theives which lurk out in the market are finally being exposed and stopped! How about some examination into the huge banking losses and other Wall Street rip off artists. Cleaning out our market and Government of all the inside deals and pay offs would turn this economy around. Let’s see these guys brought to task for what they have caused!
The entire system is a ponzi scheme, the regulators are to close to the investment houses to do any good, the financial wizards are to corrupt to be trusted with anything and the population is too easily lured by the easy dollars.
Madoff should go prison along with all the execs at his firm, even if they didn’t know – they should have. Anyone who invested with him should lose it all and get no restitution because they were looking for the “inside deal”.
Greed begets greed – you all are getting what you deserve.
And Bush wanted to take Social Security and put it in the stock market….what a scary thought if it had happened!
It is amazing that the government has enough resources to catch a former NY governor with a “lady of the night” but does not know how to catch a real criminal on Wall Street using a Ponzi scheme for years. We citizens must really have faith in these bozos that allocate taxpayer money for crimes they think are important. Maybe just possibly the situation Madoff created would have been prosecuted if the ex-governor was still in power a long time ago. Which is more important to society – caught with a whore or bilking people out of their life savings? Ask the people who lost all their money and when they stop laughing I am sure they will use a few expletives to explain which event was more important to them. This country has lost its edge and its collective mind.
If he is guilty of the alleged wrongdoings… what a disgusting human being. May his day be like a ten-car pileup of self-loathing and self disgust. He may have a soul, but to me at this very moment, it appears that he is more of a fleshbag than anything worth knowing. I hope he is looking into a mirror and seeing a black dark void that characterizes what is wrong with humanity. To blatently steal money from people who have worked hard for all of thier lives is atrocious. God may forgive him, the people he screwed may forgive him, society may forgive him, I may forgive him, but today I hate him.
Sadly this is true for ALL Wall Street thieves. Madoff will keep billions of dollars he stole (the money is overseas accounts). He will spend 10 months in a country club prison where they will set him up to continue his business. He will get to keep most of the money as the public forgets his name, buy a beautiful cottage in the Hamptons and continue to have a grin on his face as he did yesterday before appearing in court. It is all entirely predictable.
IF guilty of a Ponzi scheme in a court of law rather than a court of newspapers and the net, then the government should seize anything and everything remotely bearing his name however I doubt anything of that nature ever existed. My bet, he’s in his 70’s so if and when this case comes to trial he’ll be too sick to attend or dead so he will have beaten the system. If half of what is being said now is true, his bail should be revoked and he should be ensconced with Bubba and Raul and Craphonso in a concrete room with bunk beds and a metal toilet and dining on rice, veggies and cheese sandwiches.
The entire faith and trust has been violated. The U.S. no longer is on a moral and ethical decline. Business does not respect the law, the law is owned by business. Wow, what a country this is……..
There is no way he acted alone. All culprits should be put in jail for a long time. I will not be surprised when other hedge funds companies are found to run the same scam. SHAME ON ALL OF THEM.
I say forget Wall St. Have cash,cash,and more cash; no chargecards, no car loans; NO debt and payoff your home…and save for yourself..
The so called Madoff scandal is just another case of a badly complacent financial systems. It is time to clean up and we all know it.
If Martha Stewart went to jail for lying about selling her own stock, which did not harm others, then Madoff will probably walk away from this crime. Madoff must have cut some sort of deal with the feds to admit he ran a Ponzi Scheme. His investors may have to pay back their “earnings” so duped investors at the top can be repaid.
This just adds another nail to the coffin of the credibility of the U.S. economy. I will not invest another dollar in any U.S. stock market, investment firm, or insurance company. All are run by robbers and thieves, helped along by the nation’s equally corrupt elected and regulatory(?) accomplices. I will keep my money local and protect it with my guns.
Those who were with Madoff for 10 years probably got their money back (10%-15% return)so they shouldn’t complain. The rest? Somehow I can’t feel sorry for billionaires. But a Jew scamming Jews? Unbelievable!
Interesting no US banks lost money in the Madoff fraud. I’d think all of them pulled their money before and got their return back -or- actually lost the money in this scam and to avoid the embarrassment, used the housing crisis as the scapegoat. That’d explain the whole financial colapse we are into
Bernie, his wife, and extended family should all be thrown in jail for a very long time. All possesions they own must be confiscated and distributed back to investors. It is crazy that this guy is going to get away with this stuff. He should and probably will die in jail but his family MUST also suffer.
In a way the whole market system is a Ponzi scheme… Prior investors get out with a profit as newcomers “pay up” the current inflated price – this is especially true when a company has no income, negative earnings or no dividend payout. When businesses mature & stagnate, and there are no new suckers to buy at inflated prices, Wham! The market collapses! Unless the gov’t makes money free that is! But then the so-called “growth” is just a monetary illusion…
This should further enhance our image and reputation in the world community.
His entire possessions and those of his wife and sons should be sold in their entirety to make restitution.
Then, he should be shot as the common thief he is.
Nobody care’s because everyone understands that the SEC and other American gov’t departments are all failures when it come to going after the super rich. The average American are easy targets because they do not have the money or the powerful friends that the rich have. GREED destoryed this country and people like Madoff can and will always get away with everything. Money is power even our politicians understand this. WHOEVER HAS THE MONEY OWNS THE POLITICIANS AND SEC EMPLOYEES.
YOU SAY:
“Nonetheless, Norris said that while the Madoff mess might not cause more 700-point drops in the Dow, it may hold people back from investing in stocks any time soon”.
Only if the serious brokers and investment bankers are not able to convey to the investors not wrk with factually 1-man opertaion whch offer phantastic returns !!
The primary candidates for such scams,
and I wonder that in the damagee list
(until now !) they do not appear, are Chinese, both because of their unbridled greed and also their financial ignorance.
Is there a difference between Madoff and the hedgefund brokers et al who shuffled our real estate loans around and left the taxpayers holding the bag, thanks to TARP?
I say, good for him. At least we have a real face to put on this ugly new reality, instead of an anonymous corporate symbol!
The FBI needs to prosecute all of these people to the fullest extent possible. They need to recupe the money in fines and restitution, and put them in jail for life.
Thank God that Martha Stewart was caught and was punished. I know that I can sleep well, knowing that the regulators at the SEC are doing their jobs…protecting the population from thieves and scam artists…who don’t have offices on Wall Street.
BERNARD MADOFF
The news media kep on repeating that he stole $50 billion…this is simply]
not true..makes good reading but totally false!!
He LOST $25-$40 billion..and when you look at all the Heds Funds that REFUSE to hand back the funds to Clients AT THIS TIME,you can understand why this has and did happen.
His portfolio also went down and he wanted to save all the Clients from a catastrohy of having everyone sell
at one time..one can see the rational..
it is tragic that he could not simply have refused to give back the funds and wait out a better market like the others are doing.His fund program did not allow for this.
Madoff should be in jail (along with Blagojevich), but justice isn’t always served. But this clown is peanuts compared to the grand pyramid scheme pulled off by Wall Street and the housing industry when doomed-to-fail loans were packaged and sold as securities with value. I hope Madoff meets the same fate as Kenneth Lay.
Hasn’t the whole mortgage mess this country is in been considered a ponzi scheme? Haven’t seen anyone going to jail over that either.
Firstly, the SEC wines and dines with Wall St. If they were doing their job, wall street firms know that it is often cheaper to break the law and pay off fines, than to do things correctly and morally. The SEC has done nothing to make it worth their while to be upstanding.
Secondly, while the SEC was pounding on Martha Stewart…this guys was roaming around doing whatever he wanted and several whistleblowers were actually snubbed by the SEC. They wanted their witchhunt. Why the hell did they ignore it and proceed with the small potato named Martha.
Lastly, why doesnt the government start finely these corporations up the ying yang for this behavior to get our money back. Start with Wall Street and then the pharmaceuticals for non compliance in Medications and deviation of protocol. A million dollars a day until they are complient will add up quite nicely.
I believe that infestation, disregarding any particular species, follows a set pattern.
When my family and I lived on the East side of Cleveland, on postage stamp lots, in duplex houses, we had an infestation problem with
Rats”.
The “Rats” had plenty to eat with all the garbage cans made available to them; but, they were so “GREEDY” that they would fight over the crumbs and and devour the carcuses of the weak “RATS” that perished!
The financial system failure, too me, compares to those “DIRTY RATS”!
Madoff is a product of our culture in which the end justifies the means. This ethic has been taught in business colleges for a year that is to succeed at any cost. This ethic is perpetuated by and enthusiastically endorsed by Wall Street, which is the ethic of greed. The morality of looking after the investor welfare first is not followed and only considered to the extent of not getting caught. The evidence is Wall Street itself that feeds on its on self-interest of profit no matter who it hurts. Madoff and the market crash of 2008 are to be expected. These events are happening more often since we as a nation do not care for the notion of morality. Morality is what things should be ethics is the way they are. Until we as culture demand the morality of honesty, integrity and accountability not that is regulated by a government agency but is regulated by a heart and mind that cares more for others than for self interest. All great nations and societies implode from with in. Are we so arrogant not to consider this will happen to this nation that was founded on Biblical principals that now are rejected as out of date and not relevant. Madoff had he been a moral man would have been successful without been a crook but his ethic drove his decisions. FMV
I like to think that I do not need to visit gambling casinos as long as I gamble on Wall Street giving me a reasonable return. Now I think I might be better off at a casino. At least there is a modicum of government oversight at a casino.
I am glad to see the rich screw each other and not just us every day folks. For those who got the hose job I say “Hurts. Doesn’t it!”
- It’s even more horrendous a crime because of the victimized charities,
- His butt belongs behind bars,
- Best example ever of how greed outranks anything else, even amongst the uber-rich.
We presently treat “white collar crime” different than “blue collar crime”. We should send a message that whatever the crime you will serve hard time and not be sent to a country club prison. If Madoff is found guilty, He should be sent to prison for life. If you really want to prevent “white collar crime”, use Madoff as an example that you will do hard time whatever the crime.
Will find much more later on.. Remember, banks took big write offs, 20 bill, 10, bill, etc in the largest collapse in realstate in history… Lossing that kind of money leaves tracks all over.. And no way he was the only one involved in this. I bet, many more people knew about this.
Credit Card Reform Coming Soon, is the title of another piece here at CNN/Money; coming in 2010!!! 2010!!!!! That will help us sooooo much…thank you Congress! I KNOW we’re voting against EVERY incumbent in 2010 AND 2012 – just like we did this past election.
Want to CHANGE CONGRESS? Vote OUT the 20,30,40 year incumbent CROOKS! And NO more Trust Fund Bushes, Clintons, Kennedys!
This is just ridiculous. The whole stock market is one giant $10 trillion Ponzi scheme. If not the 401k giving 25-30% tax advantage – the whole construction will collapse immediately. Just look at Japan. Their stock market never recovered for 30 years. Look at ours – we are at the same level as 10 years ago with inflation at least 30%. So if not tax benefits, we are losing money for 10 years now and who are made money – the financial institutions which are now are bailed out. What about ordinary investors who lost $2 trillions already. Where is FBI in this case.
I think everyone is just use to these scamming people out billions. Fraud and greed have now become mediocrity on Wall St.
Here is where Guantonimo is reborn. Let Madoff and his greedy ilk work on their tans while serving time.
Guantonimo is looking pretty crowded.
Not sure who’s worse, Madoff or the investors? It’s all about greed, plain and simple. And to think that some of these fools invested every single cent that they had and / or mortgaged their houses just to get money to invest with this joker is beyond ludicrous. I have no sympathy for any of them.
I agree with others that Mr. Madoff should be in jail. In addition, Mr. Cox of the SEC should be fired immediately along with anyone else that failed to provide an independent audit of Mr. Madoff’s operations.
I don’t think Mr. Madoff acted alone. He couldn’t have. Others that assisted Mr. Madoff should also be in jail.
We need to clean house and this may mean many changes at the SEC and even in Congress. It’s time for citizens to revolt and let leaders of this country know that we have had enough of greed and crooks.
In my own, quiet distress, watching my hard earned retirement investments evaporating, I find it hard to feel any compassion to the Hedge Fund Set who never found any compassion to the “Little People Set.”
This recalls the fall of The Roman Empire which some claim was the result of the unbridled luxury of the small top class.
Sorry to say but at times I’ve felt like a member of a class of slaves.
He should be in prison right now and bail should be set at 50 billion. The reality is he will be able to hire the best lawyers around and he will get his hand slapped. If you are rich or famous you don’t go to jail, history has proved that time and time again.
The SEC chairman Cox should have been fired on the spot for being asleep at the wheel for so long. The most unfortunate result of this is that countless charities who provide services to people that are in need have been decimated because of this clown. The end result will be that the government and US the taxpayers of this country on now on the hook for another 50 billion. It just keeps getting better all the time.
I agree with others that Mr. Madoff should be in jail. In addition, Mr. Cox of the SEC should be fired immediately along with anyone else that failed to provide an independent audit of Mr. Madoff’s operations.
I don’t think Mr. Madoff acted alone. He couldn’t have. Others that assisted Mr. Madoff should also be in jail.
We need to clean house and this may mean many changes at the SEC and even in Congress. It’s time for citizens to revolt and let leaders of this country know that we have had enough of greed and crooks.
How the Stock Market Works
Young Chuck moved to Texas and bought
a Donkey from a farmer for $100.
The farmer agreed to deliver the Donkey the next day.
The next day he drove up and said, ‘Sorry son,
but I have some bad news, the donkey died.’
Chuck replied, ‘Well, then just give me my money back.’
The farmer said, ‘Can’t do that. I went and spent it already.’
Chuck said, ‘Ok, then, just bring me the dead donkey.’
The farmer asked, ‘What ya gonna do with him?’
Chuck said, ‘I’m going to raffle him off.’
The farmer said, ‘You can’t raffle off a dead donkey!’
Chuck said, ’sure I can watch me.
I just won’t tell anybody he’s dead.’
A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked,
‘What happened with that dead donkey?’
Chuck said, ‘I raffled him off.
I sold 500 tickets at $ 2.00 a piece
and made a profit of $998.’
The farmer said, ‘Didn’t anyone complain?’
Chuck said, ‘Just the guy who won.
So I gave him his two dollars back.’
Punishment should be swift and severe, as befitting the theft of $50 billion. He should be held without bond in prison, in an orange jumpsuit, and housed amid the other criminals.
His property should be secured by the court during his trial.
Talk about premeditated … I think there is a good case for classifying this type of crime as a capital crime, and the death penalty should be an option. These are intellegent folks “cheating” and “stealing” from others with profound life and financial impact.
Like Enron, how many folks were cheated out of their life savings? How many heart attacks/ breakdowns? How many suicides? How many families broken up under the strain of financial loss? How many educations disrupted? How many retirements blown away? How many others … ??? $50 billion goes a long way.
How can 20 years in jail and a $5 mil fine cover this? If convicted, people like this should be stripped of everything they own, and the amount recovered should go to those he defrauded.
The Febs should seize all his money, start repaying 700 Billion back to the American people….NOW. Then he should be put on display behind bars in downtown Manhattan where he can be spit on like the dog he is….
Who cares!?
The dude is 70 and has lived a full life scamming others. The money is gone!!
You think he gives a rat’s arse?
Events like Madoff/Bear Sterns/etc. mean nothing to this market for more than a day or so.
This market and the HOT money that moves it from day to day do not respond to bad news or good news in any reliable way. It is all about quick daily moves in and out by the “longs” and shorts which are only noise for the actual investor.
Not until we see this bear market (which began in 2000, not 2007) treat good news like bad news for weeks on end will I be confident it has bottomed.
Financial scandal, after financial scandal, the SEC has either looked the other way; or even of greater concern, have aided and abetted those willing to defraud investors. Its time to investigate the SEC (under penalties of perjury)from top to bottom.
I think they should take every last cent the guys got and see that he is locked up for a long time.Lets face it he a thief who has ruined a lot of people.
As for the authorities,they are obviously asleep at the wheel.
We live in a country where someone can sell a little bit of cocaine to someone and spend 20 years in jail. This guy rips off people for billions, and all he’ll get is 7.5 years at Club Fed…
Dear Mr. Lamonica,
I cannot believe the obtuse comments in your article. “Investors don’t care?” “Brouhaha?”
“doesn’t affect people like you and me”???
What rock are you living under?
Besides your insensitivity to the thousands of people affected directly, through foundations and through hedge funds, you seem to have forgotten that the market is already on its *ss…
There are a lot of people who are completely destroyed, angered, shattered, you name it due to this scandal. We don’t have any money left to speculate in the market.
Madoff should be in jail.
Every single SEC employee, especially Chris Cox, should be fired immediately and many should be charged with criminal neglect.
The SEC is asleep at the wheel! Why have a regulator if they can’t/don’t manage this level of abuse?
in the 80s the Reagan admin dropped a lot of the finance regs –( deregulation was the mantra) and the crooks stole 25 billion dollars in the S&L mess–not happy the crooks lobbied succesive admins–Bush-Clinton Bush to get even less regs and now have stlolen 5 trillion dollars–200 times as much as the S&L mess-if the USA gov is looking at places to point fingers it can start by pointing a VERY BIG finger at itself–
FAR too much money in NYC, and the cash flow to Congress, coupled with both Repub and Dem to TAKE CASH in exchange for lobbyists WRITING legislation (like 28% interest rates on credit cards, for credit WORTHY customers!!!) leads anyone with just 1 FUNCTIONING brain cell to conclude Congress is corrupt and NYC, with CT, MA is at the heart of it all.
Is 50B the actual amount lost or is that the sum of what Madoff told people their investments had appreciated to? If someone gives me $100 to invest, and later I lie and say their investment has grown to $1000 when I’ve really spent it, the investor didn’t lose $1000, they only lost $100. I suspect the true amount lost is a lost smaller than $50B. And if it had been honestly invested, there would have been big losses this year anyway. Not trying to excuse the action, just trying to more accurately determine the effect.
The article confuses investors with Wall Street. Wall Street will find this crisis has fundamentally changed the attitudes & investment strategies for an entire generation. I and I believe most investors will dramatically and permanently decrease exposure to stocks at the first opportunity.
1) madoff is NOT anomoly but a norm on wall street.
2) investers and money managers knew it all along but didn’t want obsene amount of returns from flowing in their way. they didn’t want to have to pay their ill-gotten money back, either. so they kept quiet and looked away.
3) they will stick the final bill to the real-wealth-producing workers, just wait and see. the sky will fall if we don’t subsidize their lifestyle, you know.
GEE KIND OF STRANGE YOU LOOT 50 MILLION AND THEY ALLOW BAIL. IF YOU HAD MADE 50 MIL. SELLING COCAINE THE FEDS WOULD SEIZE EVERY LAST CENT AND YOU WOULD BE SITTING IN A 6X6 CELL IN COLORADOS SUPER MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON. HE MUST CERTAINLY HAVE SOME POWERFUL FRIENDS. JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE TO THE WORLD HOW WE DO BUSINESS IN THE USA.
I think people are most angry because it exposes the myth of sophisticated investors doing real due diligence. Apparently they don’t and the lawsuits that are directed at advisors who said they did adequate due diligence are just getting started. As for Mr. Madoff, you have to admire his skill as a con man even if he is slime.
I think the government will give the money loss back to the individuals and the banks. Remember the OKC individuals got zero but the 9/11 New Yorkers got millions each.
Typical Wall Street greedy SOB. Why doesn’t this surprise me? While I don’t claim to be a sophisticated investor, one of the things I do look at is: who’s auditing a company. Man, that should have raised a red flag to any novice investor when they see this ‘ma and pa’ three-person firm as Madoff’s sole auditor.
As appalled as I am by the Madoff scandal, I can’t say that I am surprised. The mindset in investment managers and investors has been deteriorating for the last several years (or decade plus). It really has turned into legalized gambling with day traders and hedge funds, short selling, etc.
The thing I find interesting / disturbing is when the talking heads describe his scheme as a Ponzi scheme where the money from later investors is used to pay the earlier tier of investors, it struck me that this is exactly how Social Security is being run… and just like Madoff’s scheme, at some point it crumples for the last set of “investors”. Sadly I’m prrtty sure that myself and my generation may be the “investors” that get soaked in the Social Security Ponzi scheme. Why is it acceptable for the Government to run a Ponzi scheme?
Nothing will change in this country until americans get fed up enough to take some action… I think we really need to form a “National Workforce Union” in which every non-executive in America can join… Once we do this, as a united group, we can control exec’s from doing short term damage to everything in the US so as to engorge their earnings, and we will be able to control the elected officials given our unified voting block… This country is so busted, we’ll be lucky to make it to 2025 before total financial collapse…
The investors who loswt everything were outright GREEDY. The first rule of anything involving money is: TANSTAFL (There ain’t no such thing as free lunch). The first rule of investing is: DIVERSIFY, DIVERSIFY. The folks who lost everything (because they are greedy) should not cry.
Just another example of Corporate America-Wall Street- Screw the little guy. May they all rot in HELL
It seems ordinary investors don’t care because nothing surprises them anymore, and they have already adjusted their investments. They know the old goat and his friends will get off like his cronies have in the past. Nothing new here in view of all the other times in history there has been massive deregulation by obscene administrations. The SEC has been a castrated puppet for, at least, the last eight years.
And the difference between this guy and AAA ratings assigned to junk? Hummmm….. More people were hurt by S&P, Moody, and Fitch’s golden boy touches than what this guy did, but where’s the outrage on that?
Madoff and the principals of his accounting firm are a disgrace to mankind. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
It demonstrates the degree of speculation that $50B of money was chasing an indicated return with virtually no understanding of what was really going on in his fund. My hope, probably unfounded, it that there are no more roaches in the wall. As someone that didn’t chase the big returns with no knowledge of where my money was going, it is particularly galling that I am suffering nearing as much as those who did chase the big returns.
This is just one more glaring example of why the Bush administration was and is so awful. The SEC under Cox has grossly been negligent in their responsibility as a regulator. The notion that our markets and economy are run by benevolent individuals acting “rationally” based on market conditions is naive. We need strong regulators in our markets to counteract the fact that there are equally strong strong forces working in the opposite direction. These forces are greed and Power.
At the fall of the Berlin wall. there was a moment that the egg-heads were looking for the middle way: not comunism not capitalism. Is it China system the solution?
The Justice department should conficate all of Madoff holding and then auction them off to pay back his investors. What make these CEO’s and people like Madoff want to steal from the average American worker and think they should be able to walk away with their booty. When are we going to force our government to make these people pay for their crimes. They should be treated just like the criminals that are currently in prisons across the country. I personally am tired of these White Collar criminals just getting a slap on the wrist and get to serve their time at a plush government site.
The signal is clear. White collar crime and crimes of our own Congress related to the collapse of the economy are shrugged off. This attitude and inequality is the stuff of revolutions. We’re all on our own so forget the rules.
After reading through most of the comments nothing beyond common sense has been mentioned and quite frankly, that is all life is about, common sense. I don’t care how rich, poor or indifferent you are, life is based on common sense and strong ethics. Here in lies the problem, since we have not had a major shake up of our financial system since the 1920’s/1930’s, society has become complacent. I am beginning to have a better understanding of why my 83 yr. old grandmother keeps so many rolls of paper towels and toilet paper on hand-security in knowing that she is in control. As scared as I am of losing my job, in a sense, I hope we end up in a deep depression. Maybe history will repeat itself and we can rebuild this country from the ground up.
Not such happy holidays but hoping you have a safe holiday.
The only thing that makes this a crime is that an individual did it. The government runs some of the largest Ponzi schemes in the history of man. Social Security pays past investors with current investors money. Why is SS legal, and Madoff illegal. Both will colapse under their own weight. Congress pilfers SS, Madoff pilfers investment dollars. Why are all the talking heads on TV and in print not pointing out the similarities? Does altruism make a Ponzi scheme ok?
THese guys don’t have a caring bone intheir body, I say liquidate everything he has and sell it. Put him away forever. Let him rot in prison. Second the money from selling everything he owns can be put to the bail out. It’s guys like this who have no regard to the law that should be paying not the tax payer. Make him the poorest man in the world and then send him over seas to africa and he can fight in an armed forces infantry brigade and learn what life is really about.
It is time to start punishing those that break the law. How did he get by with this for so long! Our economy can’t continue to put up with this type of behavior. I blame the government just as much as I blame him. The system is obviously broken and needs fixing ASAP. What has become of ethical behaviour in the United States of America? We need values and we need checks and balances. We don’t seem to get it, do we?
Madoff? Hah! That’s nothing – NOTHING! Just wait till the average investor and joe public wakes up to the massive ponzi scheme the US, our politicians, bankers and the Fed have been running for the past 70-80 years now after taking us off the gold standard and substituting debt as money.
Why should we be surprised? It is all about greed. We as a culture worship money above all else. There has not been accountability in this country in a long time. (For some that means; just don’t get caught) This is the fourth time in my adult life that the financial market has made mistakes. This time my money was safe but for how long? I trust no one. The credit card companies are screwing those who pay their bills on time, the banks are screwing those who save money, and the government are screwing the common man.
Why should we be surprised? We have full bellies and empty heads and our hearts and faith are broken. It is the first time I have ever been ashamed of our country.
THIS IS JUST A SHOCK AND AWE DISTRACTION,AWAY FROM THE MASSIVE PLUNDERING BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE OF THE UNITED STATES. WHILE IT’S OBVIOUS THAT WALL STREET IS GETTING TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WITH ARROGANCE AND SECRECY,FEW REALIZE THAT THIS IS THE FINEST HOUR OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER CABAL AND “W’S” REAL LEGACY, THE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA.
He should be in jail and not out on bail..as he has used illegally gotten gains from other people to keep him out of jail… that is the real irony!! Also all of the employees that have profited from this scam should also be in jail and any family members who profited from this illegal scam.. No remorse .. no forgiveness…
there were no auditors. no audit opinion = no audit. there was an accouting firm but no audit. that is the biggest flag that should have been seen by any investor or fund. how simple can it get.
“This is a culture within WallStreet. Israel III, Madoff, even Eisner who gave away what $100mill plus to his good buddy. The middle class hasen’t been educated to construct these types of crimes. The middle class have to understand that when they give their hard earned money to these selfish rich, crooks, it not only distances their ability to further their own families wealth, but puts their money into the family funds of the rich such as Maddoff, and Israel the III. There are so many more of these types of schemes that are legally OK, and made that way so the rich can continue to commit crimes against the middle Class. It’s time the middle class to stand up and fight hard against the rich and greedy.”
The top 1% may have earned thier way INTO the top 1% but once there they learn how to steal for the poor and middle class. WE NEED A FRENCH REVOULTION!
Maddoff is the poster boy for the end to the “hands-off” approach to the proper market regulation needed to maintain oederly markets.
Compared to the $1 trillion+ that’s already been spent bailing out failing firms, the $1 trillion+ that’s expected to be spent next year, the $2 trillion+ in credit card limits that will be reduced next year, and the income not earned by the millions of people getting laid off, what difference does $50 billion make in the grand scheme of things anyway?
Nobody cares because it’s not really all that significant unless you’re one of the people losing money in the deal.
Why ??? Because it is not a surprise for anybody. This whole Wall Street is just a one big Ponzi scheme.
I really think he should be strung up by his toes BUT he probably has enough money from his investment scheme to hire a big shot lawyer who will get him off the hook…..how sad.
Corruption has become a way of life in America. We just look over it like it isn’t there, but it’s a moral issue. Webster defines moral as relating to principles of right and wrong. It seems that most Americans today, especially politicians don’t worry about right and wrong until they get cought. Then they think if they just say, “I’m sorry”, we are all suppose to forgive them for their rotten immoral deeds against us. Where there is no remorse for the deed done, there can be no forgivness. That applies to our politicians and our government officials especially. Let’s just call right, right and wrong, wrong. If you can’t deal with that, then stay out or our way and out of our government. We are tired of just standing by and watching our freedoms taken away, one by one. Americans deserve better than you are giving them. Stop it, NOW!
I think it is terrible that he hurt so many people and do not know how someone like that sleeps at night. Why is he not in jail and why is he getting special treatment? Makes you wonder!
What makes this any different than anything else that goes on in this country?
All you have to do is steal enough before you get caught and you get to the point your untouchable because your rich!
Sad commentary on what has been allowed to happen. These people have been so focused on the almightly dollar — getting it at any price — a moral code no longer exits. Many good, decent, law abiding people will suffer as a result. Is there any hope for Americans?
They should seize all funds withdrawn within six months prior to his announcement and add it to the pot that gets split in any settlement. It’s likely he allowed a priveleged few to take out funds inantication of it’s collapse. At the very least recent withdrawals shoud be investigated much like insider trading.
He ripped off family, freinds and members of the Jewish Faith that trusted him like a father. He should Rot in Jail– Then Hell for eternity!!!
I feel very sorry for the victims. I do know what it is like to be disenfranchised after putting your total confidence in something.
I was downsized from a good job at age 43.
Maybe it is good that this happened. Too many Americans have the attitude of “life is good for me, skrew you”. Maybe we all need to know what it feels like to have our trust betrayed so we can be human with each other, something I haven’t seen in a long time.
“Greed is good!” Gordon Gecko/Wall Street
Mr. Madoff – a poor boy from Queens – served up a rebuke for those whose main purpose in life is to demand wealth beyond their actual needs.
His niece is married to someone who (until 2006 when he left) was very high up at the SEC – an investigator (I read it in WSJ). I am sure that is part of the reason he was never properly investigated.
This is a culture within WallStreet. Israel III, Madoff, even Eisner who gave away what $100mill plus to his good buddy. The middle class hasen’t been educated to construct these types of crimes. The middle class have to understand that when they give their hard earned money to these selfish rich, crooks, it not only distances their ability to further their own families wealth, but puts their money into the family funds of the rich such as Maddoff, and Israel the III. There are so many more of these types of schemes that are legally OK, and made that way so the rich can continue to commit crimes against the middle Class. It’s time the middle class to stand up and fight hard against the rich and greedy.
It seems that the ENRON was the tip of the iceberg and their downfall should have served as a warning. The Sad truth is that their off the books and high risk speculation was not an exception. The SEC under Bush was prepared to look the other way in the interest of a free market that would rain cash on everyone. What we now know is there was widespread use of bad accounting practice and excessive risk taking and a very poor rating system that had a severe conflict of interest. Coupled with massive deregulation and an almost non-existent oversight; it appears to me that the fairytale markets of illusion may not rise like the Phoenix from the ashes. The party is over and we have a few years of mess to clean up.
I think we all care where and how our money gets managed. But the average investoe barely reads up on their portfolio, let alone researches who is managing it. The job to do the research was with the fund managers that invested with Madoff. Sadly, they need to be held accountable as much as Madoff, and the SEC. The short of the long, Samll invetors are viewed with disdain by the establishment, and there is little in the the small investor arsenal to change that fact. Until strengthended regulation is put into action, this Ponzi will not be the last.
FrugaPete
Blah Blah Blah. Now you are saying that the U.S. government is running a ponzi scheme…maybe God’s in on it too!
I consider the Madoff scandal to be grotesque and grossly disgusting. And I also consider the fact that investors are shrugging it off as just another corruption in the market and economic sector to be equally grotesque.
Let me see…the Derivative CEO’s truely deserved their bonus pay and have left Wall Street to spend more time with their families….Bernie did his nasty all alone…Obama is going to build our golden bridge to the future. Lumpy mattress time!
Two things: First, why isn’t Madoff’s sorry butt sitting in jail about now, awaiting trial, while the SEC / FBI go through his books; and Second, his Ponzi scheme, bad as it was, shrinks to insignificance compared to the government versions, called Social Security and Medicare.
How could sophisticated and very rich investors not check out that the accounting firm that was auditing the books was a 2 person office in Florida. You mean to tell me nobody checked this out in over 20 years. The rich european banks never sent a representative to at least see who these people were. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!
What happened to the 20 billion dollars? WHat did he do with it? How could someone run a ponzi scheme for 10 years under the noses of the SEC and state auditors? Whta was the key to Madoff’s scheme?
Although he has only been arrested recently I don’t believe house arrest is sufficient. This type of crime has become rampant and the treatment from the arrest date forward is way too lenient. Hence, it continues to happen on a far too regular basis. This man has destroyed the financial situations of way too many people and must pay a severe penalty starting today not when they finally get around to a trial and he is on death’s doorstep.
I read where he is being confined to his $7 million apartment. That seems like a good place to start recouping some of the $50 billion. This lowlife should walk out of jail down the road without a penny to his name.
Why is this guy living in his luxury appartment paid for by the investors he stole from? Lock him up – throw away the key….sell all his and his families assets and then watch him rot.
Markets – shmarkets … 900 S&P being completely manipulated.
Unregulated markets led to commodities, housing and banking system collapse. Borrow as much money as you can at 4.5% – enjoy it and if and when you cannot pay it back ask for more Fed money.
Jokers one and all!!! With less greed and perhaps a sprinkling of common sense we would not find ourselves here today.
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for why the SEC did not catch him? So, I really want to know what the punishment will be? And, if they are exempt from punishment, then DUHHHHH!!!!!! guess why they failed to do their job?
Another extremely angry and jaded American who is deeply ashamed, angry and feeling helpless about his government. Tim Elkins
We know it is a hopeless situation and that we no control over our government or the situation.
To make matters worse Obama is bringing on board the entire Alumni Association of Goldman Sachs.
We are being Sach-ed
I believe big investors are privately very nervous about the fallout, but they know it could get worse if they publically disclose their own exposure to Madoff.
Maybe certain “priviledged” clients are being allowed to transfer their wealth leaving everyone else to fight for the scraps once the news becomes public?
I feel the Madoff situation is a disgrace to our country and undermines the “trust” factor that each of us investors have in Wall Street.
Madoff created a lot of new millionaires; he stole billions from the billionaires, so now they’re only millionaires !
Seriously, these were accredited investors taking risks in unregulated private investments. The reason that the markets have not reacted badly to this news is that the vast majority of investors did not, do not, and will not invest in outfits like Madoff.
The reason the markets are actually reacting positively is that some scoundrels are being caught and prosecuted (Samuel Israel, Bernard Madoff, etc.). We know that we’ll never catch all of them, but as long as we catch some of them and punish them severely, it will put somewhat of a brake on investment theft.
Going forward, a safer way to invest would be to use non-Wall Street mutual funds for stocks, TIPS for bonds, and FDIC for cash. Everything else is just gambling.
I find it incredibly strange about HOW the market is behaving (or mis-behaving as the case may be). Something is definately rotten in the financial markets. There is no logical way that the markets can possibly just continue to shrug off all the increasingly bad news that is leaking out of every pore of the economy. Eventually, the S*** is really going to hit the fan, then it’ll be time to duck and run for cover folks. There is a huge amount of S*** and there is no way possible that each and every investor isn’t going to get some on him/her.
As I’ve stated before, I believe (and I see it everyday with bailout after bailout) the markets are being manipulated and controlled until the new OBAMA administration is seated, then things should start falling apart soon thereafter. It is absolutely illogical that Obama can makes all things right with a simple wave of his hand and some soothing words and another freaking huge stimulus package (yet another bailout). Money talks, bulls*** walks.
Our children’s childrens children will pay for this financial folly. Damn.
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Somewhere along the way, someone should have caught a clue what was going on or this guy is one intelligent criminal who fooled other financial experts. Lots of heads should roll and should be held accountable just like Madoff is. Those who should have known better should be sent to jail as well.