Can U.S. automakers survive?

the purchase of a foreign automobile should NOT be permitted under the cash for clunkers rules.American funded bonuses should be spent only on autos made by an American company,and manufactured predominantly in a plant located in North America.Stop sending American dollars out of the country already.

if the ‘Big 3′ go out will they still make parts for the remaineder of the cars they have made??

All the money and all the plans will not save Detroit. Aside from cost differentials the US auto makers have a PRODUCT issue. Americans truly are not impressed with the style, quality and value of the cars

Saddly to see the American industry slowly die, like steel, like the Railroads, like the Airlines and others

Currently have 2 hondas – never a problem after 5 years – had 3 GM – will never go back – would buy if the quality was there – I will give chances but 3 strikes you’re out.

The problem with the big three is very simple. The union. We as a nation can no longer pay these workers wages and BENIFITS. It makes me sick when I hear one of these workers complaining when they are shut down for a month and only get 95% of their pay. Plus they can receive unemployment for not being unemployed. Thats a slap in the face to us real working people with no or very little benefits. IT’S time the unions be gone. Shut down the plants and hire people who want and need jobs. Gee I don’t know if I would work for $90 an hour wage and benefits or not. RIGHT. I’ve done bodywork for 45 yrs. and never received anything close to what these people make. I had to fix their monstrosities for all these years. Maybe they should work for what we had to. Its sure alot harder to fix one than to build one. LET THEM FAIL AS WE DO ANY COMPANY THAT CAN’T PAY THEIR BILLS DUE TO THEIR GLORIFIED UNION. LET THE UNION TAKE CARE OF THEM. WHY SHOULD WE. REORGANIZE WITHOUT THE UNION.

Sure, Ive been buying american made products, and i support american made vehicles, in fact we have three of them, 2007 Toyota Sienna, a 2008 Honda Civic, and a 2006 Toyota Tundra (made in TEXAS)

Ladies and Gentlemen,
If we the people let the government give (Loan) another 10, 20 , 40 or 50 billion, it will not make a difference.
Reason: The big 3 still have to offer products that “enough” Americas will buy. I recognize that their quality & reliability has improved, but the value is not there. For example, compare the resale value of the Japanese cars after one year to comparable domestic cars. Second, so many people (I was a Ford Guy)have been burned by the poor dealer service, something the Japanese companies have capitalize on. Third, there are many people who don’t care anymore, it’s a disgrace that the American 3 had the leadership in innovation, the best engineers, and the best tools to produce world class automobiles. All lost over several decades of arrogance & non car guys running the companies.
We still have the best people in the world, but they have to be lead. Now, America is playing catch up, hopefully, in my life time, I will “want to buy” a car from the big 3.

I know CNN is so liberally biased that they will not post this message, but it’s OK. Why do the “big 3″ cars have very low resale values? It’s because they suck even when they are new, just like their stupid, arrogant CEOs, who are not qualified to manage anything, let alone the “big 3″. It’s sad to know that it’ll be a long way before we can get back the glorious and beloved “big 3″.

I purchased a 1996 Mercedes C220 a year ago. It has a 2.2 litre, 4 cylinder motor that gets 27mpg city and 33mpg hwy. Brand new was $26k, after 11 years it had 110,000 miles on it and a book value of $6000. It’s in perfect running order and only needs the oil changed regularly. Show me a Detroit vehicle of the same quality, reliabitlity and expected longevity and I will trade my Benz in now. Otherwise, LET THE UNIONS DIE!

RE: Andrew from NY

First of all the Big 3 will never, ever be in the position they once were, not even close. I support the bail out as well, however, I do not support the numb skulls that are running these companies into the ground.

Do I think the bailout will work, it has too, their business model is so messed up, GM alone has over 7000 dealerships, Toyota has about 1500 and they sell the same amount of cars.

Agin, Rick Waggoner is the problem as lone as he is at the helm GM will continue to fail.

I think that this is a huge wake up call to the Big 3. I think given the chance the Big 3 can reclaim their status that they once had. I also think that it is VITAL that the Big 3 survive for two reasons. 1. National security. Local and Federal law enforcement agency’s drive Crown Vic’s or Impala’s or Charger’s. It would be funny to have a COP pull you over in a Toyota. The second reason why I think it’s important for the US auto makers to survive is because of the jobs that will be lost if they do not survive.

I like to drive European cars because they are built better and I know that they are expensive but that is a price I am more than willing to pay for safety and for the fact that they won’t leave me on the highway.

However I do support the bail out. Also if the bail out works, I think the big 3 should close down its factories around the world and bring jobs back to the America and have better incentives to buy American cars such as a better warranty.

Until someone can answer this question, there is no hope!!!

Ford, Chrysler and GM have been moving out of the US for the last 30 years because they can’t compete with foreign automakers, while foreign automakers are moving here because they know they can make money and build a better car, its not just about tariffs.

Again, the CEO’s of these companies and most companies aren’t qualified to be Taco Bell Managers, again I apologize to Taco Bell Managers.

All big 3 think we are stupid, A lot of us have lost our jobs and don’t have money to buy anything let alone a 50,000 car? They can bail them out all day long it does not put money in my pocket so I can buy one. And what about all the 07’s and 08’s that have not been sold. Now’s not the time to build 09’s

In 1980 President Reagen fired the air traffic controllers and broke the union, did you see how fast the postal workers settled. The unions must face reality and concede. The management of the Big 3 must also rein in their costs and cut their overhead,

Why do the general readers continue to believe the BS put out by the paid writers to tell the public how terrible the auto industry is hurting. When you pay $35,000 for a car you are an idiot and you still let them stick it to you with the great sales pitch.Get wise dummy,wake up…

I ripped this off another post the other day, but I think it addresses many of the “Pro Big 3 posts”:

While you’re wrapping yourself in the Flag and patting the auto-industry on the back for it’s patriotism during WWII, consider this little snippet of reality concerning what really happened (excerpt from a historical account of private industry’s contribution to the war effort during WWII):

———————————————————————–
Of the $2.8 billion dollars in planned expansion of defense facilities, private capital only accounted for $773,000,000. The average government expenditure for plant expansion was six million dollars while the average expenditure of private capital under the five-year amortization was $60,000. In short, corporate America was holding the free world hostage. The figures in the table above are enough of a testament to bury the myth that private enterprise built America and created a “Fortress of Democracy.” The fact remains it was all done with the taxpayer’s money under the guidance of the Roosevelt administration.

In industry after industry, the story was much the same as it was for aluminum. In the critical machine tool industry, corporate America continued to drag its feet and delayed war production. About 15 million man-hours of machine tooling could have been made available by General Motors if it had foregone a model change. If the entire auto industry had foregone model changes in 1942, over 30 million man-hours of machine tooling could have been freed up for the war effort. General Motors promised to give up a model change and then promptly went ahead with a model change anyway.
———————————————————————-

So, as one might have expected, taxpayers funded massive capital expansion for the big-3 back then, just as they are asking taxpayers to bail them out now. How little things change…

What people need to understand is that a bailout will not solve the problem, it will just delay the inevitable, bankruptcy. These large corporations do this all the time in order to restructure their company. Airlines do it, manufacturing companies do it. This economy tanking is a lesson that I hope the Big 3 will learn from because they have certainly not learned anything that has happened in the past.

If you knew a GM “worker” who took delight in rubbing your nose in the doo-doo because you had a lesser paying non-union office job, would you be inclined to buy a GM product and put your money in their pocket?
If that GM “worker” enjoyed making snide remarks about you being a mobile home owner with no basement or garage, would you be inclined to buy a GM product and put your money in their pocket?
If that GM “worker” bragged about tossing their supervisor’s desk into the scrap baler because they were given a certain work assignment, would you be inclined to buy a GM product and put your money in their pocket?
If that GM “worker” told someone within your earshot that “GM’s really got to get their quality up. You wouldn’t believe the junk we ship out of that plant,” would you be inclined to buy a GM product and put your money in their pocket?
If you were the GM “worker” who had shot off at the mouth, should you be surprised that your victim went out and bought an import?
No more GM anything for me, ever.

Have you ever worked on an assembly line?
In a manufacturing plant? In an auto plant?
If not, you may not comprehend what a physically demanding, and over time body debilatating experience that is.
GM starts new factory employees at a meager $14 an hour now-less than $30,000 a year, no pension-certainly
no geravy train for sacrificing your
body.

RE: B, Cleveland Ohio

The reason that most people are more willing to give the financial institutions the bailout money is because they are the backbone of our entire economy. As you can see, people are now having troubles getting mortgages and loans. Businesses are going bankrupt because they can’t get credits. Young people can’t got to a good university because they can’t get a loan. People’s retirement savings are evaporating. If Wall Street dies, this country dies. No one wants to bailout greedy bankers, but we are in a situation that we have to. You don’t have to work in the financial industry to feel its impact. Blame the Feds for deregulations.
The Big 3, however, won’t kill our economy. It will definitely impact our economy negatively, but most people won’t get hurt if they go bankrupt.

I think the big picture is being overlooked, and yes the Big 3 have poor practices, and so does the UAW, I have worked for GM in the past and I can tell you it is un-balanced. The big picture is no one can get loans, but besides that, there isn’t anyone out there not worrying about losing their job, so why purchase a car or truck when you are unsure of your job, also the other issue killing the Big 3 is resale, they have a long way to go with Reliability, however I have a Chevrolet Avalanche and it’s sad when the truck is worth 1/2 of what the books say, I am glad it is a lease, however our Honda Accord is still worth nearly what we paid for it. The UAW needs to wake up and get with what everyone else is or they won’t have jobs to worry about in the future, also they need to get rid of all GM, Ford, Chrysler upper management and start over, heck there are millions out of work who can do their jobs for way less and better, and would be just glad to have a job, it is truly sad when a GM UAW Custodian makes $70K per year with full benefits and retirement benefits, when the avg worker will have to work to 63 just to retire with nothing.

Our family has always driven Japanese built cars until 8 years ago. That’s when I was looking for a truck and I bought a Ford Ranger and my sister bought a Ford F150. They are good and reliable cars and I haven’t had one problem since I bought mine. The problem is with the rest of the line up with GM and Ford. Most of the middle class just want a gas saving, reliable vehicle that not only runs good but also looks good. Has anybody taken a look at the American designs, they suck in comparison to the European and japanese styles. GM, and Ford has put so much money into this big, macho American designs that they neglected the everyday vehicles for the family. Just look at some of there stupid commercials that show cowboys, working on the ranch, pulling a 2 ton payload. Who the heck does that. Majority of society are moving in to urban areas, cities. The big three have failed to see the change happening around them the way the Republican party did and ultimately has lost ground on their competitors.

Here is what is wrong with GM, Ford and Chrysler:

1. They build decent cars, the problem, they have no resale value, buy that Impala or Malibu for 25000 and take it back in 3 years its worht about 8000, buy that same Camry made by Americans and its worth 13000.

2. GM Ford and Chrysler have spent the last 20 years moving out of the US cause they say they can’t compete, whileHonda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes have been moving here and they can compete???

3. Management at these companies is horrific, Mulally, Waggoner, and Nardelli aren’t qualified to work as managers at Taco Bell, sorry Taco Bell Managers.

4. Should the UAW be blamed for negotiating good contracts, how many of you negotiated a price on something only to say you were kidding and pay the full price???

5. Now should the UAW be blamed for taking advantage of the village idiots, ie Wagoner, Mulally and Nardelli? Who knows, but they should have known some of the perks were not sustainable.

I will only buy Toyotas or Hondas in the futre, one they are made in America, two I am sick and tired of buying a car to see it lose 2/3 of its value in 3 years!!!

A few things that generally get overlooked. Banks & car makers started to cater to the masses who had weak credit over 10 years ago. The wind fall was incredible based on the fees & APR. Meanwhile, the risk was worth it based on how they reported their numbers. We now live in a different world where Sarbanes Oxley puts the accountability on the individuals who run these companies and jail time is a reality if they lie on their annual reports. What really gets lost is the decay of our values in our country. Everybody wants a big house, expensive car and most have had the opportunity to buy these things with no money down. Why? Because very few actually save money these days. Why should we? Everywhere we turned there was easy financing. Banks & car makers made their products available for most without putting down a dime. Now everybody is shocked because the credit isn’t there. Guess what? It is. I just got a great rate on a Japanese car because I put 40% down and I chose to because I wanted my monthly payment to fit inside what our net take home pay was. What a concept…..saving for a rainy day & living within our means.

I think everyone needs to remember that we arrived to this point in time from all the people who took out crazy loans on a house that logically would not be affordable on the Walmart salary they earn, all because Americans have grown into this “entitlement” attitude of deserving everything for doing nothing. And now those people will get bailed out by my tax input. Wake up America, we did it to ourselves. Being ranked 18th out of 24 Nations in education should say something.

Bush needs to realize, he is not the President of Wall Street, he is the President of the United States. He has shown his true colors, were the economy fine, he would’ve let millions of Americans lose their jobs. So many are ill informed when they make comments about this situation. there ARE far moving plans ALREADY at work. By 2010, GM WILL be a strong competitor. It’s disheartening to see the number of “Americans” who are so ill informed making such selfish, self centered comments about someone else’s livelihood. What has happened to American? Where are the true Americans> The percentage is becoming smaller and smaller. Our nation is quickly becoming a me-only country. What a disgrace to this once great nation of Americans. Were it your job, would you want others to say “No help, let them fail!” I would bet my life you would say “Not me, this time it’s me, no way, HELP ME!” And personally I would want to see our government offer you that help. One thing a LOT of you seem to forget, this is a LOAN, NOT a free get-out-jail 700 billion dollar fund like the banks got. This loan will be paid back at 5% interest! I wish I could get 5% on my money, since the fed has reduced savings interest to nearly 0%. Think about, as a taxpayer, if you’re whining, you WILL make money on this loan.

What happens if they don’t survive? Their employees, suppliers, and sales people will end up selling Toyotas, Hondas, and other vehicles. People aren’t going to just stop buying cars if GM, Ford, and Chrysler go away – they will buy them from other companies. Increased demand for other companies’ cars (which tend to be better, more fuel efficient, and less costly) will provide jobs for autoworkers, auto sellers, and parts suppliers just fine.

Let them die already.

When you buy a foreign car? Where do you think the taxes on the profit goes? The foreign government. If you buy a foreign car or other product, you transferring American wealth somewhere else and these dollars are gone. Saying that all American cars are junk and foreign are all great is a joke. This week I rented a Chrylser Sebring with 38,000 miles, no problems and it was quiet. This was a rental car. The next stop I got a Hyndai Sonata with 35,000 miles. I don’t know how I made it from point a to point b. I rented an Accord a few months ago with 28,000 miles, trunk didn’t work anymore. Great quality. It’s not always who makes it but who drives it and how it is treated. Without this industry, your job may be the next one to go regardless of your industry.

totally opposed.

This transfer of my money to car companies forces me to pay them for a product I choose not to buy.

The better solution would be to have everyone who wants to see them bailed out buy a car from them. And let the rest of us spend our money as we choose

Of course they can survive. Many companies and industries have made historic turn-arounds. But, there are many more that have failed because they would not change.
The industry has been given another chance. Will they change? Or a better question is, can they change? Unfortunately, their history doesn’t seem to reflect well for their future.

Harmony, if the fate of the US economy relies completely on the success of three companies that have been failing miserably for the last decade, then we are in serious trouble. Do you honestly think that the Feds would have let GM get to the point of bankruptcy if the fate of our entire economy relied on the success of the same. Give me a break… It’s no secret that they have been failing horribly since the turn of the Century. Do you know how to read financial statements?

MO Tom, Do you have a link to that article? I’d like to read it. How many spots in that top ten does the Big 3 own? Magazine articles and awards are interesting but in the real world car dealers and educated consumers use tools like NADA, Blue Book, and Black Book to determine what they will pay for a vehicle, so thats the basis I use for dtermining which vehicles are better investments.

I will never buy a car made by the UAW ever. I refuse to. I belive that GM, Ford, and Chrysler are to blame as well for terrible management decisions too. But, I think management will change soon, but the UAW never will. I will purchase Toyotas and Subarus for life. I will never buy an American Made Car until the UAW ceases to exist or makes realistic wage decisions and the American Car Management and Business Personnel gets their heads out of the sand and makes better long-term decisions. Till then, Viva La Foreign Cars

Yes, they can survive. But, the first thing that needs to happen is to open up the credit markets. I am a Ford auto worker who still drives a 2001 Taurus with no problems. I went with my daughter to buy an American made General Motors Saturn Aura on Monday. She had some difficulty obtaining credit, and this time at a much higher rate, because of the credit crisis. Yes, she did buy the car, and loves it! I heard stories at the dealership about how people are being turned away, not because they don’t want these vehicles, but because they can’t get credit. I am a proud member of the UAW. I work back breakingly hard, to make the best quality vehicle to send to our customers. For this, I earn approximately $50,000 a year to support my family of 4.I live in a house less than 1,000 square feet, drive an 8 year old car, pay $800 a month in day care, and face the same struggles as everybody else. Where people get the idea that as an autoworker we live high on the hog is beyond me. We can and will survive.

Have to love most of the people responding to this post. You’re all more than happy to give 700 billion to companies that contribute nothing but schemes to make themselves richer, yet have an issue of giving 2% of that to companies that actually produce a product and millions of others rely on directly or in directly. If the 3 do collapse it will put this nation into a tailspin if you people can’t see that then we deserve the economic hell that this nation will be going through because of this collapse.

What’s the point of making loans payable within 30 days if not the company is not viable?

If the company is not viable, it’s going to file bankruptcy and good luck either way seeing that taxpayer money back.

It’s another Iraq where you blindly throw things at the issue with no viable exit plan.

MO Tom, I got m original MSRP numbers from the manufacturers’ websites. I compared base model camry, base model fusion, base model malibu, and base model accord, all 2008. I used Kelly Blue Book and NADA to run numbers on same cars all 2008 base models with 18000 miles. I divided the difference of the original MSRPs and the calculated used values by the original MSRPs to get an average depreciation rate for the first year in service. If you do the same you will see about a 20% depreciation in the Gig 3’s and around 6% – 7% with the competition. I do not recall stating anywhere in my previous post that the Camry was rated in the Top 10 for Value retention according to whatever magazine you quoted in my previous post. Nor do I remember stating anything regarding depreciation beyond the first year of service. Please read my post completely and do not accuse me of saying anything that I did not say. If you have any questions or need any assistance in figuring out any of the math please let me know.

GM and ford have great cars in foreign countries. I have seen and test driven cars like Ford Mondeo, Fiesta, Opel Astra, Optra (both GM). These cars have stunning looks and great performance and more importantly very good gas meilage. I am shocked to look at the cars they make in US – being their home country, I expected to see something better when I came to US. I am at pain to convince myself that its the same company! It should not take much to just launch their own models in US – and that can be done quickly.

Your right Dan. The problem with the economy is with the banks. Government should shut them down since they are no longer operating as banks. Maybe others will step up and become new banks that will once again begin operating as real banks.

It will be interesting to compare the benefits of the managers from GM and Toyota over the last 10 years period.
If the quality of the cars doesn’t improve all that money is wasted. To change the quality there must be major changes in management.
I think we should have more than three car companies in US.

“I am sad at all the negitive comments about hm ford and chrysler. If we would buy for the big 3 and not support japan cars and other foreign produsts we would not be in this mess.”

Apparently you don’t speak much Inglish now. It is about quality, not jingoism.

The auto bailout is a bunch of crap and is a product of bigshot MBA-types and business school graduates that have no knowledge of real business. GM and Chrysler may need to restructure/downsize, but for all of the reasons being blamed for their current situation, no one is blaming the true cause — NO ONE IS BUYING ANY CARS, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC, OR ANY OTHER LONG TERM HIGH COST ITEMS. No matter how much money is thrown at any industry, nothing will improve until banks once again begin to lend money at real rates to real people. The real problem is banks and financials were given a complete bailout for their greed and ineptitude with no questions or strings. They took the money and had parties and buying sprees for other banks. People and the governemnt leaders need to wake up and see reality. Wall Street and heir greedy MBA types are causing these current economic times and no one is making them do what banks are in busines to do – lend money. If the banks are not lending, then they should be prohibited from continuing to operate as a bank.

I grew up in Michigan. When I graduated from College I interviewed at General Motors. I was told that employees that want to perform and move up the ladder will not fit at GM. The ideal employee wants to stay in the same job for 10 years and not complain about it. General Motors has the worst culture of any large U.S. company. They have to fire everyone and start over. The company will never turn around with the incompetent, non-aggressive culture they currently have. PLease stop sending them money.

I have had GM cars for the last five vehicles. 2 were outright lemons, an 02 Cavalier and an 04 Malibu. 2 were great, an 04 Impala and an 08 Cobalt which I currently drive. The 06 Impala was good mechanically but assembled horribly. The Cobalt is light years better than any GM product I have ever owned. I have never been a fan of imports. My other car is a 98 Escort, which still runs great today and has held up quite well. GM needs to become consistent with it’s quality to become truly competitive in this market place.

The financial troubles of the auto companies are the least of this country’s problems. I’ve never seen so many poorly written comments from Americans. The grammar and spelling mistakes are awful. I can’t imagine what all of you stone throwers do for a living. I surely wouldn’t buy a product or service from most of you.

My 12 year old GM car has 200,000+ miles, and it runs just as good today as the day I bought it. No problems.

what hatred towards american workers. hard to comprehend. does anyone remember who rebuilt germany and japan after world war 2? yes you guessed it the american taxpayer. growup and understand history so we dont repeat the mistakes of the past. really sad to be an american today.

I will not buy a GM or Chrysler
product again. I have owned many
of them in past years. Things
change…I change! Detroit has
have their head in the sand and
their bad..bad..management has
brought this delema about. They don’t
care…only the big pay checks and
retirement !

I don’t beleive America need a Union in the 21st century anymore. This is a global economy now, we should export the union to other country such as China… the union is the thing in the pass and it’s not suitable for America anymore. Let’s export them.

There are several things at play here.

1) UAW has outlived it’s usefulness and hinged itself against the automakers to an unsustainable level.
2)The quality issues were there, especially in the 70’s and 80’s. Newer generations have been the victim of this and have moved on to other cars. It takes alot of time to change that image.
3)The government refuses to protect the american worker. Free trade agreements and WTO’s to oppressive regimes and sweatshop based manufacturing is not in the interest of our nation.

I am a longstanding fan of the long history these companies represent. I will always buy American. I spend a few minutes whenever I shop to find the American product. It’s the American thing to do when price point is comparable.

I own two cars now, a two year old and a 5 year old Trans Am. The TA is not the best quality, nor does it handle well, but at the pricepoint it was sold at, it was a solid deal. My two year old is a satisfying vehicle that fulfills all my expectations.

Just to clarify. I was not attacking teachers. I was defending them. Poor grades, in most cases, are not the fault of the teacher but of the students and PARENTS.

I bought a 1992 Pontiac Sunbird for my first vehicle (a car I actually still drive – anyone want to buy it? It’s in excellent condition, red, coupe, no rust, excellent 3.1 V6 engine!). I bought it as my father encouraged me to “buy American”–as I expect many fathers encouraged their children to do.

Then I sat inside a Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla–AFTER I had bought the car. Moldings seemed to fit better, the engine was more fuel efficient, the car never broke down. THEN, I read Consumer Reports and saw (as I still see) that American manufacturing quality has never been high. It’s almost as if every criticism EVER leveled against an American car was simply ignored. It’s as if GM, Ford, and Chrysler NEVER purchased, drove, or studied what the Japanese did RIGHT. They just persistently delivered substandard cars with the hope that the “buy American” theme would help conceal their cars’ lack of quality.

Well, fool me once….I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER purchase a GM vehicle. Sit in a Honda Civic today or a Toyota Prius or a Nissan Altima, and tell me the US manufacturers have one up on the Japanese. The US auto industry is more rudderless than a dinghy in a hurricane, and I think it’s RIDICULOUS my tax dollars are going to prop up a company that arrogantly believes it can dictate people’s desires in cars while ignoring the realities of the world that we live in.

I can’t wait to get in a new Honda Insight – when they roll out, I am out of my Sunbird.

David in Nashville, Your Impala was made in Canada and your Avalanche was made in Mexico. Unfortuately no UAW hands touched either one.

Sure the BIG 3 can survive.

With our money, that is it… just a detail.

Funny that today’s capitalism rewards failure as much as it does for performance.

It will be very difficult for them to survive. How are they planning to sell enough cars by next March to turn things around? The economy won’t get any better so less people will buy cars. How are they going to persuade people to buy their cars – with their bad reputations and much higher quality foreign cars are available at the same price.
It’s funny how we have to help bail out failed companies that make bad products that we don’t want.

If GM & Chrysler thought demand for their automobiles was bad before, they haven’t seen anything yet. Remember all those taxpayers that didn’t want to see more of their tax dollars wasted on another bailout. Well, all of those taxpapers that didn’t want to see more of their taxpayers dollars wasted on GM & Chrysler will no longer be buying their automobiles. By passing the bailout, President Bush & Congress HAVE just destroyed demand for GM & Chrysler automobiles.

I am sad at all the negitive comments about hm ford and chrysler. If we would buy for the big 3 and not support japan cars and other foreign produsts we would not be in this mess.

People we live in America lets not loss America to japan and china. If we do not change we will not be speaking english in time.

Wakeup America NOW

till the Unions exist, they can not survive. Unions are THE MAIN problem.
Forget the pay, it is outrageous. it is the attitude of these Union work force. They oppose automation. Any new equipment that is brought into the UAW plant needs union rep approval. These bozos get paid $80 per hour to sit on a production line and press a button all day while reading a magazine. I am serious. I have seen it with my own eyes in a GM plant in Michigan. I was the machine supplier. Machine needed someone to press a button to operate. that all! The guy who was doing this operation (pressing a button all day) had overtime pay with benefits and was making $100K a year. People in burger king work a lot harder and get paid a lot less. There has to be balance in compensation. They need to be paid $15 per hour all inclusive. Lot of americans will gladly accept such jobs.
This country is so upside down on the basics that I wonder that there is any hope.

This is typical of US Governement , they keep throwing money at problems and always have . If it works the politicians bicker to get the credit and if it does not they quickly remove themselves from it . Bailing out the private sector is a BAD IDEA but since we are in generous giving mood I’d like to know WHO’S GOING TO BAIL ME OUT ? I got that answer and it is : ME AND MY BOOT STRAPS , Got it ?

I just purchased a new Chevy Impala. I’ve already had to take it back to the dealer, due to a piece of missing interior trim from the factory and a recall on the interior temp controls.

How did the “UAW” forget to put a peice of trim on my interior, then the next “UAW” quality control employee forgot to check it before it left the factory. An then the dealer didn’t notice it on their so called 250 point inspection.

I have always purchased GM’s products, even after a purchased a 2004 Avalanche that had a popping noise in the engine that they wouldn’t fix.

I’m a Idoit! i’ll learn one day to stop supporting the UAW.

The problem for the Big 3 is that large percentage of the upcoming young car consumers grew up with imports. They have not driven any Big 3 cars and their only exposure to Big 3 were rentals or mini vans. Not much hope getting them to a Big 3 show room.

To the poster complaining about shutdowns:

“Shutdowns” have always been a common,
and necessary event in large scale manufacturing. You can’t have people just randomly absent from a production process that has to have all the facets of production present. I don’t understand the big outrage against working people; it seems that giving $700BL to an intangible “finance” industry – where people don’t even get their hands dirty with anything “real” – is just fine with many. Also, I believe one comment below is an excellent observation: perhaps the amount of product we are apparently forcasted to consume, is way out of line with reality. The economy cannot be soley based on “growth” forever (if everyone in India lived the way we do, the planet would have already been history). It is imperative that new economic models be developed that will be capable of serving us in the “post-postmodern” age….

I have driven foreign cars for many years now and have very rarely had the “opportunity” to drive in an American car.. However, on a recent vacation, I drove 5 different rental cars, all American.. I can honestly say, they were horrible. The gas mileage was horrible. Their quality was horrible.. These companies do not deserve to be in business. I can think of no other large company that makes a product as poorly as the Big 3. The management is incompetent, and the union workers are all overpaid. Let them go bankrupt. Let them lose their benefits and go on unemployment. Then they will realize they are lucky if they can get a job with reasonable pay and benefits.

No. You should have been buying fuel efficient and safe GERMAN cars from the beginning. 35-70MPG. Support a country that KNOWS how to build vehicles and is pioneering fuel cells like Mercedes with their 20+ buses that are in use in European cities such as the hydrogen economied ICELAND.

But don’t worry, the superior GERMAN auto industry will come in and take up the slack once the 3 stooges are gone. And we can all rest in a safer, more secure society.

I want the Big Three to be bailed out for one reason. If/when we go to war how will the US mass produce a war machine with out utilizing existing auto factories? Research manufacturing during WWII.

The credit crunch helped the failure of the Big Three. A person is lucky to finance 95% of the value of the car (not including taxes, tags and fees). Also their business model to offer 4 times as many SUVs as cars was a huge failure. When I went looking for a car to buy recently, the american brands offered little car choices (3 cars to 8 SUVs). I felt they ignored me as the consumer. Even if high quality car are being produced by american companies they are still marked-up $5,000 more than their foreign competitor. In the past I’ve owned Honda, Nissan, and Toyota and recently bought a Scion TC. I let the customer reviews in the Kelly Blue Book guide and price influence my decision. The Big Three still has a chance as long as they earn a good reputation.

I for one is tired of the government coming to the aide of companies/people that spend/waste more money in a day than I will earn in a lifetime. After the CEOs ruine the company they arent asked to leave but sacrifice their bonus. In the meantime I cut down on my personal spending waiting on the day the government will increase taxes to pay for these bailouts. Where is accountability?

By the way I love my TC!!!

Detroit has to make major changes, swiftly and decisively on several fronts. These need to be executed flawlessly, too.

1) Freeze management/white collar salaries and eliminate bonuses.

2) Design a line of vehicles that people want to purchase because the quality, warranty and looks compete with Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Nissan.

How is it that American workers build Asian automobiles with superior quality and durability? Simple: these vehicles are better-designed and engineered, and made with better parts than their American counterparts.

3) Negotiate lower hourly wages with UAW.

4) Reduce the number of products they manufacture.

C’mon Detroit … time to prove your capabilities is now!

They cannot survive. There is no market for there cars.

The U.S. automaker won’t survive in the long-run if the government keeps on stepping in and making these bone-headed decisions. The purpose of the government is to provide checks-and-balances, not checks-and-balances and bailouts. Leave the free market alone, let the strong survive, and the weak fail. If they wanted to step in to fix the problem, then they need to go straight to the source of the problem, which is the consumers. They are the ones that ultimately drive this economy. The Feds should not have selectively bailed out any businesses or financial institutions. They should have just step back and let it all fail. If they were going to step in to stop the bleeding, then they should have used all 700 billion to directly assist the struggling homeowners and soon-to-be struggling homeowners. We are only in the first wave of the financial crisis caused mainly by the sub-prime mess. When the second wave hits next year, more layoffs will be seen caused by the ALT-A resets, and option ARM resets. Then we will be in an even bigger mess. This rescue of the Big 3 automaker is just a temporary fix, and at the end of the day, it is still a loan that needs to be repaid. You can’t repay a loan if you don’t have money. The consumers are the only ones that can help the automakers and this econonmy, but they can’t buy if there is no money to buy. Injecting liquidity into these companies and financial institutions doesn’t make any sense because the problem is still there. Funny thing about all these failing companies and institutions, I could have failed these institutions for free, no bonuses required. They should hire me to consult. How much do I charge? 700 billion. Then I would fix this mess myself. However, I do require paid lunches and Guitar Hero during my 15 minute breaks.

Alabama David, I just checked Automotive Lease Guide, the leading source for residual values, and nowhere in their top ten best vehicles for holding their value is the Camry. Number ten is the Nissan Rogue, which retains 37.5% of its value after 5 years. It is a well known fact that the biggest hits on depreciation occur in the first couple of years, yet even averaging the Nissan’s rate over five years results in a 12%+ decline, double the rate you claim for the Camry in its first year. Where does your information come from, Toyota.com?

They will survive because the government will see to it. Quality is just not there. The last American car I had was an old beater when I was in college, since then I have driven use (10+ years old) BMW, they all have run great with well over 200,000 miles on them. My 2 previous ones were both destroyed in bad accidents where I was rear ended while stopped. In both cases I walked away without a scratch or bruise. In both cases I was hit by a large (an Oldsmobile and a Cadillac) American cars where their drivers were injured. Talk all you want but when I can buy a used BMW that is safer, more efficient, will last longer, is funner to drive, and costs less than a new car from the big three why should I waste my money. Apparently the government decided to waste it for me since they will eventually file for bankruptcy and the tax payers will loose their “investment”.

If you believe free-market economic theory (and if you don’t, then you believe the government should dictate how industries and companies are run), then letting the industry work out its issues is merely a factor of competition and survival of those companies most able to deal with change. This concept works and serves society best. However, what it fails to acknowledge is the “social cost” of failed industries and assumes that the government has acted/or will act in a way that it has the capacity and will to allow workers to be retrained and deployed to serve a new industry that rises from the ashes. Feeding our domestic automakers cash under their current business models is only delaying their demise. Given the current WORLD economic situation, recovery in their current state simply won’t happen and the legal framework that they operate under (supplier, dealer, worker, etc contracts) prevents them from adjusting quickly and as radically enough to survive. As for “building quality cars people want” is a bunch of nonsense. They do build cars people want. Quality is very good (those who disagree still think this is 1980-something). However, they do not sell ENOUGH cars to sustain the organizations they built that have the faulty assumption sales will always go up, year over year. Solution? Government monitored, company led restructuring including new supplier and worker contracts, reduce capacity, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF DEALERS to drive up demand and limit commoditization of their products/services, and low-cost loans to facilitate modernization. Lastly, provide substantial government assitance by those workers displaced by the process including education, supporting new industries to absord the workforce, and a social system to replace the critical benefits the workers will loose (health care). If not, the social ramifications of losing the companies outright WILL BE CATASTROPHIC. We are talking about entire states going under.

We currently drive a VW Golf Diesel (TDI) we get 35 MPG City and 48MPG highway. We have an almost 3 year toddler and just found out we are pregnant with TWINS. Obviously we are going to need a bigger vehicle. I refuse to drive a GAS vehicle, and my wife refuses to drive a Minivan. We would love to help out the economy (Big 3) by purchasing an American vehicle. But non of them make a vehicle that is a Diesel passanger vehicle that numerous people want in this country. The Big 3 have been in bed with oil companies for so long its crazy. I don’t want to see them fail, but somethign has to change and change quickly.
We are looking a purchasing a new VW Sportwagon TDI. It still won’t be big enough, and is not American made. Until the Big 3 get there heads out of the sand, people such as myself will look elsewhere and not support them.

The other date, i read the newspaper to know that average UAW makes about $80/hour (This includes pension, healthcare etc.).

If this is true then this is too high.

I am a Electrical Engineer graduated from the best University in Canada (University of Toronto). I make not even close to 1/2 of the UAW hourly rate.

Something is wrong with the UAW and the BIG 3 salary.

what they need to do is come in line with the price of their autos and bring them dow where we can afford to buy them
their prices are way to high . i shoped for a new truck last week end and they are not coming off the prices enough.
and you know they are slow because they are calling on the phone to try to get me back in.
they bring their prices in line and do cut backs like the other companys have on benefits and pay would help to bring things back in line they have had it to good fo to long

Attention Tom, Chicago Illinois & Ronald Schweitzer Wapakoneta:

Taking a cheap shot at teachers, wow that’s not cool. Teacher’s don’t make inferior products. The students who may not get good grades are responsible because they did not study. Perhaps those student with poor grades were promised a UAW job. The UAW employees work real hard 8-10 hours a day, but I bet they don’t skip their union daily breaks or god forbid they don’t take lunch breaks a few times a week. It’s about an inferior product, being built for the last 20-30 years with a poor business plan and a UAW ego. It’s not about the teachers.

The Big 3 lost the battle a long time ago. The product they produced was inferior and their service was second rate. It’s a shame we have to throw good money after bad.

The US auto makers need to take some tips from UK auto workers. They went broke because they were too unionised, too stuck in mud and inflexible. The workers in US are that way. Not to say that the management above them do not help with outdated “we are the US car manufacturers and everyone will always buy from us”. I would buy a US car if…..they were…..reliable, cheap to run, good quality, cheap to purchase, held their price and did not suck gas like water. I can always hope. Bail them out sure but make the whole industry take a drastic change cars, workers and managment a like. Also make CEO’s accountable for the money. Like a coach in American football…you don’t win you are out !!!

Of course the Big 3 can survive, assuming of course that we, the taxpayer, will continue to give them the cash in order to do so. All this money will do is prolong the inevitable, BK for the Big 3.

You have to remember, right now unemployment is rising at record rates, credit is rediculously tight, and people are saving money instead of spending it if they have it at all. That means that even if the Big 3 survive to produce cars, nobody is going to be buying them. And that means the only way for them to stay in business until the REAL economy begins its recovery will be to continue to take money through bailouts.

I think its great that the auto workers will continue to have jobs, I just wish I had one still so that I could do my part and buy a new car that I dont need, over-priced, and quality is not what it should be.

THe Big 3 are finished in thier current form, and thats mostly because they are being looked at in a vaccuum, assuming that if they exist people will be buying thier products no matter what.

it is unfare to all american except UAW, and would not work! it will be much efficient to invest to help transfer those UAW workers to non union Toyota US or Honda US and make the car people really need.

buy american car… hurray.. what is that….60% of BIG-3 JUNK is made outside US. 70% of Toyota Camry made in US. Wake up rednecks… buy whats is best.

The only reason this is happening is because of the status of the economy. If this had happened 3 years ago they would have been told “good luck at your next job”. The Big 3 should be forced to make fuel efficient cars and benefit the American people long term if we are loaning them money. I suspect they will be let off the hook by complaining they cannot do it while they are attempting to fix all the other problems and overpaying labor. Add it to the tab of future generations and thank our politicians for not fixing Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or having the guts to even try.

This is to Emily, I would suggest you look at the Honda Fit.. Although I’ve never been in one, it gets good reviews, is an Insurance Institute For Highway Safety “Top Safety Pick”, and gets excellent mileage.. Don’t waste your time looking at any American cars, unless you are looking for a gas-guzzling SUV.. (Even then their are better foreign choices.)

As poorly as the “Big 3″ were doing up to now, this whole fiasco is only going to make things more difficult for them.. Their poor financial condition is reinforcing the perception that they produce low quality cars.. No one wants to support failing companies, and it’s only logical to wonder how the products of a failing company can be any good.. I for one would not consider purchasing any American car right now.. I won’t spend my money on an inferior product just to support incompetent management and lazy union workers. I think they deserve to go bankrupt and hope they do.

The “Big 3″ can be used as a future goodwill created by american once they build new and improved cars in the future.

The sea change of Obama’s “change” won’t accomplish a thing if we do not get back to basics on living within one’s means, as individuals, municipalities (most have laws requiring same), and as a country. The US Federal Reserve and Treasury Dept, in particular, and the G20 global players in general, think fiat money can be created out of thin “globally warmed” air, and the financial market corrections like the one we are in now, can be prevented by manipulating these money systems. The Detroit saga is one of worker and management complacency and failure to provide market leadership, compared to 20+ years of competition from foreign auto makers who have won the competition. Due to quality [e.g., value, fuel economy, frequency of repair record, resale cost] issues, my family has not owned an American brand car for the last 14 years. Clearly we are not alone; the market share of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and other Asian brands has increased steadily since the 1980s. Don’t tell me that the CEOs of GM, Ford, and Chrysler didn’t notice, they just failed to change their business model and have now become obsolete, just like the steel industry did in the 1970 and 1980s when high costs and international competition sound the deathnell for U.S Steel, Bethlehem Steel, etc. Let Bankruptcy under Chapter 11 proceed!!!

The Big 3 will be able to survive if they move their retiree pensions over to the PBGC and their retiree and employee health care over to Medicare Part B. This is how the Japanese and Europeans handle these issues, and it will level the playing field.

The Big 3 product line is the best it’s been in decades; it’s too bad that they have been so slow to address retiree pensions and employee and retiree health care.

There is a government role here: regulation. We need to force them to make the vehicles of the future, not the past: high-mpg vehicles that run on renewable fuels. Anyone who gets in the way of these initiatives should be fired immediately.

We also need to merge them into the Big 1, probably run by Ford, to be able to compete with the other big international auto makers.

Before hearing that the car companies were closing their plants for a month, I never knew, and never would have imagined that they close for two weeks EVERY YEAR for the holidays.. How many other large companies close down for 2 weeks over the holidays every year? This makes me wonder what other benefits the lazy auto workers get that no one has heard of.. The more I hear about these companies, the more I feel like they all deserve to be unemployed..

I don’t understand how Bush is able to single-handedly give money to the auto companies. Doesn’t Congress have to ok any national spending? The $700 bailout was only authorized to be used for financial companies, not non-financial companies. So how is Bush allowed to use the money for something that it was not approved for?

This bailout,is like dropping a drop of water on a hot frying pan,managed Bankruptcy is what should have happened and eventually will happen,this bailout money only should have come when this occurred,the unions have got to go period.

Why don’t we all just hold our breathe and jump up and down until we turn blue?
The college degree for building cars is an engineering degree and is available from many colleges. Money spent in the area in the economy has a multiplier effect of three to four times before it leaves the community. It is used to pay someone’s wages who then spends it for food and gas and stuff supporting local businesses who pay wages and taxes and so on down the line so everyone has money in their pockets including you. Don’t spend money in great enough numbers and you don’t receive money. No one is just giving away money.
If you want totally American made cars make it a part of the law that in order to receive bail out money the car parts must be made in the US. Why would foreign manufacturers selling car parts to American manufacturers sell good quality that would directly compete with their own products? The worse the quality the more likely it is that people would buy a better quality or foreign car made in the US, right? If you wanted to eliminate the Americans as competition how would you do it? Do you really believe other countries LOVE us when they are demonstrating against us with Chavez and South America and terrorists are trying to kill us and people are throwing shoes at our president?
We are all Americans so let’s work together to get this country back on track.

I have known for many years that something is wrong with the American auto industry. I was working at an aircraft company in Southern California way back in 1967 and the crybabies in the Detroit UAW decided they had to garnish my paycheck (and all other Mcdonnell Douglas employees who were forced to be in the same big union as the UAW) to support their strike fund. I never could understand the principle behind that. Makes me proud to be living once again in a “Right-to-work” state instead of a “Right to have a job if you don’t mind being in a union state”. We are now in a period of de-leveraging the cost out of a sick auto industry to make it more competitive. Now I’m not one of those foreign car owners and I have always faithfully supported American car companies. It is beginning to become clear to me how the American capitalistic model is working. Just as in the Roman Empire, we are tearing ourselves apart from within with capitalistic greed. The Wall street crooks have had a field day with free enterprise and deregulation. That has done nothing but create a virtual happy hunting ground of unscrupulous money mongers who have only the mentality of “Take the money and run. Look no further than the recent exposure of this Maddoff character. What the hell did he do with 50 BILLION dollars? If we continue unabated in our social/political concept of life and liberty, then we will join the Titanic at the quiet bottom of an abysmal depth.
I’m going to reitre to Panama and try not to hear about the mess in the good ‘ol USA while I live out my years without having to have my money sent, against my will, to the United Auto Workers.

Why can’t old dinosaurs that won’t change with the times to stay in business and are horribly bloated and fat companies like GM and Chrysler just go extinct? Do American really want to support the UAW and GM/Chrysler? Who will all fail within months even with the BAILOUT by Americans taxes?

CUT JOBS and CUT WAGES like everyone else is doing. I am disgusted by the UAW, GM and Chrysler. They think they walk on water or something and all they’ve been is a detriment to the US economy for years.

They are delaying the inevitable. I haven’t heard when I get my bailout.

Every time I get get behind the wheel of an American car its easy to see why they are failing. The quality of the materials is sub par, the engine and handling are a joke. How are we expected to believe the American car company can return to profitability when their lineups are so heavily polluted with substandard vehicles.

Being pregnant, I am looking for an economical car with plenty of room in the trunk for a stroller. I really wanted to buy an american car, but none were listed in reviews online as being good economical cars. I am very disappointed that I can’t buy an American car. I would like to contribute to the future of this country but the big three make it very hard for me to be persuaded to buy their cars. I don’t want a gas guzzling minivan or SUV.

I’m not an economist (thankfully), but it seems like the auto industry playing field has fundamentally changed and is likely to continue to change. I doubt the market for new vehicles can support all of the companies and brands out there. The Big 3 (and maybe others as well) appear to be too saddled with legacy infrastructure, legacy expectations, legacy plans, and negotiated agreements to have the flexibility to adapt. And with the way the economy is hitting “joe worker” out here in the real world, we’re not going to get back to the auto boom days anytime soon, regardless of the availability of auto financing options. To me that means we are only temporarily keeping a sinking ship afloat by providing Federal “loans,” money I would better describe as a taxpayer donation to a lost cause. I hope I’m wrong.

I found this interesting and amusing. This UAW worker must be one of the students that can’t fill out a job application. Proper grammar includes checking your spelling. Maybe it’s not the teachers; maybe it’s the parents that do not pay attention to the child’s grades. Don’t blame the teacher, if the child is failing, shouldn’t the parent do something about it as well. Maybe looking at the report card and taking away the i-Pod, TV, etc… for bad grades. Average teacher salary is in the upper 40 range with a B.S. Auto worker with a GED in the 50 – 60 range. You tell me where the priorities are in this country.
“the uaw workers are not making as much as management is telling people, they are not living lavishly, look around you tony, uaw workers work 10x as hard as teachers, and most teachers do not
deserve the salaries they are getting,
look at some of our young people graduating high and canot even fill out a job application. do not sell the uaw workers short like that, they work all year long and do not get the whole summer off, they also work 8-10 hours a day, not from when the bell rings in the morning till it rings in the afternoon. i see teachers living in large expensive homes, driving lavish vehicles, made by hard working uaw workers, and they also take lavish vacations, quit whinning, if you do not want to teachers get a job with the uaw!!!
Posted By Anonymous: December 19, 2008 11:21 am”

I believe that the bailout for the Big 3 should be done by the oil companies. After all, it was the Big 3 and the Oil companies who benefitted from all those gas-guzzler SUVs.

I worked for a call center of one of the Big 3 and the calls that I received made me promise never to buy a car made by any of the Big 3. Some calls involved new cars or SUVs running on the highway would have their engines suddenly die down while traveling at top speed.

I used to own 1997 Corolla and it still works fine after 11 years. This car used to be a taxicab putting in 18 hours on the road 6 days a week. Now it is a private car and it is still doing well. I currently have a 2006 Civic and I have no problems with it.

The Big 3 have to change their philosophy to that of the Asian automakers; make quality/reliability top priority.

Anyone arguing that The Big 3 make a competitive product need to educate themselves as to the meaning of the word, depreciation.

My assumption is the UAW simply wanted a piece of the pie. Employee education, not withstanding. At one time the big three was a viable industry. I just hope that they can regain their footing. I think they’ll have to do a better marketing job. They’ll have to become more creative. Arrange and extend invitations to the public to visit their plants to see what care and quality they employ. Introduce the visitors to some of the workers, get people involved.

I have purchased 5 new GM auto consecutively. No more. I’m done filling the pockets of these hot shot CEO’s that mismanged the company and the UAW that won’t give an inch. Making these people wealthy is not my resonsibility.

The problem isn’t the auto industry, it’s the banks. If Americans would stop and look they would see that the reason for the big three problems isn’t a poor business plan, nor is it an over paid work force. The problem lies in Congress and the regulations they removed from the banking institutions that led to their collapse and ultimately to there not being able to loan money so good honest Americans could buy cars. And lets face the truth, if people can’t get loans, it doesn’t matter how cheap the laborers work.
Isn’t it funny how the Government was able to turn this from their failure to ours?

posted by Gary, Clarkston, Mi. December 19,2008 12:43

They really do need a top down overhaul. They are simply out of tune with the rest of U.S. industry. Kind of like their own little bubble world. The unions need to accept that they are not non-replaceable and that they too need to be subjected to competition…isn’t what they are doing a sort of socialism?

Not a chance, this bailout proves they cannot survive. But anyone can survive if you keep them on life support, the moment of truth is when you pull the plug. I suspect we will waste hundreds of billions of dollars and several decades before we figure out it did not work.

My children and theirs will foot the bill for all of this nonsense. I think we are in serious trouble as a society when we are in this position.

It was bad before but, who in their right mind would buy a GM car now?

$13.4B…GM runs on $2B to $4B a day, they are gettting $9.4B, that will last how long??? Chrysler sent workers home with pay for a month??? Uh, last time I checked that would be a good way to waste money, not save money!!! $70/hr for an assembly line worker??? Why is it Japanese workers average $50/Hr and they make better cars. I don’t hear the UAW willing to work out something to help the automakers. All they do is sit back and tell the Gov’t to bailout the auto industry. Only now, that the $13.4B bailout outlines that the UAW renegotiate the contracts are they to do something. The airline industry went belly up and they re-organized and they seem to be ok. What really gets under my skin is the fact the Big 3 go to DC and lay a guilt trip on us about there workers and the jobs lost in the industry. Meanwhile back at the ranch, the Big 3 couldn’t care less about there own workers, otherwise they would have done something along time ago. The crook CEO from GM admits that they didn’t listen to the consumers, now they want us to listen to them! this is another good one…the GM for Ford went on record as saying the “past is the past”. Sorry to everyone that works in the auto industry but you should be mad at the big 3 and go after them, they are the ones that didn’t give a
rats AS* about you!

The Big Three will not survive. With the economy the way it is, people are not buying big ticket items. I bought a new Chevy years ago. Day one on, I had nothing but problems. Dealership kept blaming for the problems. I figured rather than spend $20,000+ for a car with problems, I would buy a used car for 1/3 the price from here on out. This way I expect the problems.

Every auto makers sales are down at least 30% and it isn’t due to the cost of the automobile. If unions are vile and the cause of the “Detroit 3″ downfall, then we better stop public employee and teacher unions as quickly as possible.

I read an article that upto 75% of the parts was from abroad (either Mexico, Canada etc) for some of the BIG 3 cars. So is it really an US made Car? I read about Toyota now building the Camry in its entirety here in the USA. Despite this fact, it is interesting to note that BIG 3 is seeking a bailout assuming it costs more to make cars in the USA.

I think BIG 3 lack discipline and more importantly innovation. They don’t have a car that can compete with the Corollas, or Civics. A bailout will save them for 2-4 more months. Unfortunately,they will be back seeking additional bailout again in 2009 unless there is a revolutionary change.

Its a shame what some of these idiots are saying, none of you even know what you are talking about. You better wake up and smell the coffee, if the big three go under, it want be long before the rest of the country goes to. Another 2 million jobs lost, will send us spiraling even more towards becoming a third world country.

1) This 3 month bailout will only delay BIG 3’s funeral but we know that we have to burry them and rest them in peace sooner or later. They simply have too much debt to be rescitated.

2)Bush does not want to take blame for one more failure industry in his watch, so he is trying to pass this failure to Obama to eventully let Detroit file bankruptcy under Obama’s administration.

3)Detroit have low quality and high price inventory. They have been looting american fellows for a long time by now.

4)Let the stronger survive. They need to figure out their own problems not tax payers. I dont remember they were ever giving free cars to tax payers, EVER. Infact, if you go to their dealer ships, they trick us every way to get more and more money from our pockets. No body can every figure out, what is the real price of their vehicle is.

In 2006 I bought a 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP brand new. In 6 months it was out of service 28 days. I spoke to the GM rep and asked for a replacement car (lemon law is 30 days out of service within the first year) The GM rep said the engine and not blown up, the transmission had not dropped out, GM was not going to replace my car and if I didn’t like it I could talk to their lawyers!. Two months later they bought the car back from me. The old GM philosophy of dealing with customers still persists. I will never buy another GM product again, and probably not Ford or Chrysler.

There have been a lot of causes for the current troubles the Big 3 are having. The UAW didn’t help, them giving in to the UAW’s demands didn’t help either. Their drop in quality during the 80’s and 90’s is another reason. However now that’s changed as GM has improved a great deal and Ford is rated as equal to Toyota and Honda in new vehicle quality. Also the housing/bank failures haven’t helped sales for any manufacturer as people can’t buy cars if financing isn’t available. They can’t be faulted for that.

To those who say that the Big 3 didn’t give us vehicles we wanted is baloney. They gave us the Mini-vans, SUV, crossovers and big pickups that most people wanted so they were giving us exactly what we wanted as that’s what everyone was demanding.

Now they did neglect the small and mid-size car market but not anymore. The Mailbu, Aura and Fusion are all nice cars and will give a Camry, Accord or Sonata a run for it’s money if people would just give them a chance! GM has a couple of good new cars in development and Ford is about to lauch the revised Fusion with a Hybrid version that will have best in class mileage. They also are bringing over the European Focus in about a year and the Fiesta next summer from what I hear. Both of these cars will be almost completely the same as the Euro verions and reviews on them have them better than anything else in their class. Now just need to buy them which will help out the Big 3 (GM and Ford at least) a lot. I’m not so sure Chrysler will survive either way.

I think Ford will survive. Chrysler has one foot in the grave already. As a former domestic car owner in the late 80’s, I abandoned domestic cars (GM products) because their cars were very unreliable for me.

I ended up buying used and older imports (Japanese cars) with a lot higher miles on them, that held up much longer. If other import owners are like me, we are afraid to buy a domestic car with over 36K miles on it.

For GM & Ford to survive they need to build trendy exterior designed, reliable cars and stop making the cars for my grandfather.

Make cars that is head to head with the Japanese in exterior styling, quality and most importantly reliability!

FORD is almost there with imports, will GM ever drink the kool-aid?
GM commercial raves about their cars get the same or better gas milage as the imports,,that’s not why people are buying the imports..it’s the reliability, styling and quality..wake up Detroit!

The younger adults and teens are buying imports and then throwing their money into the after market parts industry…was Detroit sleeping the last 10 years when all these kids are driving around in their tricked out import cars?

My next car may be a Ford Fusion…that is if I can get a car loan..that’s another story. Come on Detroit put this money to use and become an industry product leader again!

Alabama David, Thanks for supporting the Japanese economy with your purchase of two Toyotas. I’m sure they appreciate the help as they struggle to meet the obligations to their population with national health care and their version of social security. I have a hard time believing that the car only depreciates 6% the first year. That means your $30,000 Camry is worth $28,200 after a year. IMPOSSIBLE!!

In april 2007 we visited the State of Florida and i was surprised to see how in the usa they keep on building huge cars who consume lot’s of gasoline.Here in Europe we are building smaller cars with more environmental friendly engines who consume less energy.I think that the big 3 missed a chance to innovate and produce cars who could compete with the japanese cars.Standing still is going backwards we say here and now they get the bill; meaby it’s good that the financial crisis is there so the will get a stimulus to reorganize and become the leaders of the industry again;but it will take time.

Who do you think buys into the economy? These workers do. You may feel that these workers are unskilled, however you dont seem to realize the amount of wear and tear it puts on their bodies to do the work that is required.
Most of you do not realize and are very unappreciative of what the auto companies bring to the table. They are the reason alot of you have jobs else where in the country.
Maybe you should be pointing your fingers at Wall Street instead. See where the real corruption lies.
Thank you John for your positivity. We love people like you.

When my mechanic tells me to buy foreign cars than American cars, we know that’s a problem. He told me that all he see are American car, rarely a foreign car such as Toyota or Hondas and he does is over 200 k miles. Unbelievable the most capitalist country on human history and is not letting market forces weed out the inefficient. Capitalism is about efficiency and competition, not about government bailing out every corporation out there. and we talk about Chavez and Castro. I am all about Socialism, all the way.

Only if the automakers can clean house through a controlled bankrupcy. Otherwise, they are just bidding time and wasting tax dollars. People are not going to be buying cars unless they have to for another year or more at least.

Can U.S. automakers survive?
As long as someone else buys their junk, because I refuse to ever buy from ford, gm or chrysler ever again!

NO. enough said.

As long as the Weasels of Wall Street (hedge funds, etc) give themselves huge salaries and bonuses for doing little more than clerical work, pushing paper and sitting on their butt pushing keys on a computer, the UAW (and most working-class people) are going to want good pay also. Remember guys, most Americans do not have job contracts, we are at-will employees. Those Wall Street Weasels have employment contracts and they have lawyers ready to sue to force the employer to pay them. For clerical work !!

Have you noticed how the Weasels want their bonuses for the year, how they insist high pay is necessary to retain top talent – despite the fact their business has failed and begged for the $700 billion bailout?

The real problem with the auto industry in America is overcapacity – cars are more reliable so people drive them longer, even the used market has plenty of cars to sell. The Baby Boomers aren’t driving as much as they once did, hither and yon and willy-nilly. In large cities, the grid-lock is so bad people would rather not get back on the road after getting home from work. Less wear-and-tear on the vehicle.

A few years ago when the domestic auto industry began offering gimmicks like “employee pricing” it was obvious to me they were building more automobiles than they could sell, pushing them into a crowded market. And with people taking out home-equity loans to purchase automobiles too, new cars were sold, the not-so-old cars flooded into the used-car market and saturated that one too.

All of the automobile manufacturers have to cut back on production and that means UAW workers get laid off permanently, non-union workers at other plants get laid off permanently too. There will be no upturn. Soon the Baby Boomers will realize they are the “little old lady who only drove her car to the grocery store and to church” and a car lasts a long time when it is hardly used.

There is still the issue of credit – obviously the people who “need credit” are the worst ones to loan money to. You can’t sell new cars to them, they will default. That’s a huge percentage of the population, figure over 30%.

The Chinese people will have to stimulate their own country’s consumption, the United States simply can no longer import most of the things manufactured there. This country should not import any Chinese-made vehicles for that reason.

Most Americans are overweight and need to walk more, get more exercise – the more time spent walking, the less time spend driving. Fewer vehicles on the road makes the driving less of a hassle for those who have to drive.

I guess I’m at a loss why the UAW demands so much money for unskilled workers. I’ve never seen a college course for auto assembly and I seriously doubt one would even need a GED to hang a door or a trunk lid. The big 3 have cash backed and zero percented themselves out of work. We have dealerships closing in our town because no one is buying cars. Giving the big 3 tax dollars to build cars just to sit and rust in inventory isn’t the best use of our hard earned dollars is it. $17.4 billion dollars won’t last long and the big 3 will be back looking for another handout. Maybe Detroit should be renamed Katrina

They have large pension obligations that their competitors do not.

I have had two GM cars parked in my garage for 30 years and will NEVER have another one after the CEO and the union made fools of themselves and the company during the Congressional hearings!

The US Automakers can and will survive if they get creative. If they would eliminate “the middle man” named car dealerships, and deal directly with consumers. That is why, DEll doing so well. They build computers as needed when needed, cutting inventory to minimum and eliminating the third party.Which would be the dealerships in this case.

We are so upset about all the bailouts, my family stopped shopping. We are only buying food and gas. Nobody is willing to pay off my mortgage, why should we go shopping to help the economy if the government is punishing us for living below our means and saving. We all have secure good paying jobs and we got nice year end bonuses, but it’s all going to the money market accounts. We will spend again when the economy is up and running again. We are not interested in supporting lazy loosers. We want to buy a couple of new cars, but again, will hold out until this is all over and than go and buy it with cash.

What about Circut City, Archway Cookies, Eddie Bauer ???
Not Fair to them…..

Let’s not forget another major the Detroit 3 face…the consumer now knows more than ever that not every Detroit auto is built in the US and many of the foreign manufactures autos are. In fact Detroit has 3 models in which 80% of the car is manufactured here in the US with parts made in the US. For some of the Detroit 3 over half their auto are from elsewhere. The “Buy American” mantra that they have lived on will be no more and the anger of the American taxpayer will lead many not to even consider a Detroit 3 car. And as you may be able to tell I am one…my Toyota Camry is 8 years old and better than any comparable Detroit 3 car. Toyota’s Camry, Sienna and Tundra all are comprised 80 percent of parts made in the United States…buy one of them and you are “Buying American”. The “foreign” manufacturers aren’t raping the American tax payer!

No more bailouts for “big business” and the banks. The money is going to to to CEOs and others who think they’re entitled to it; they’ll quickly forget about the products they’re responsible for producing. Oh…I see I just used the word “responsible”. Aren’t we all supposed to be RESPONSIBLE for our actions whatever they may be? I’ve seen a great lack of it FOR YEARS!! Oh, by the way…I’ve always bought American made vehicles (not the real expensive ones because I AM responsible) and they’re mostly JUNK, but I’ll buy American anyway.

The big three produce inferior cars. The depreciation rates of even the 2008 and 2009 models can’t compete with the same of the competitors. I just shopped and researched every manufacturer’s mid size class car. I bought two new Toyotas. The average annual depreciation rate of the Camry, during the first year of service, is around 6%. The average annual depreciation rate for the first year of service is around 20% for the Big 3’s cars. Which do you consider the better investment? Before the Big 3 can survive any financial market they must produce a car that is competitive. If they continue to refuse to do so then why stay in business? All of their JD Power awards and such mean very little to the consumer who is looking to spend his money wisely.

The Big 3 business models were flawed. After years of poor quality they when after the SUV/Truck market (hugh profits) but at the same time the neglected the family car market (the middle class vehicle of choice). For example the Taurus went from top seller to no seller. So the oil crisis ended the SUV/Truck craze and there was noting for them to fall back on. Retiree costs and poor R&D got them at the end. But there is hope for them…they just need time and money hehe which is everything to a company.

Most of us have better wages, hours and working conditions (even if we don’t belong to a union) as an ancillary result of unions bargaining on behalf of workers. Bought a 2006 Impala w/98,000 miles off of a fleet lease this past spring. 29 MPG. The car is wonderful.

Being in the automotive sales end for 14 yrs, I think G.M. should have Toyota powertrains in their compact cars like it did with the Geo line up in early 90’s. The Geo Prisom was built in GM plant in Canada, but had a 1.8 litre “Corolla” power train. If GM could make the deal with Toyota again, this will solve the better built/reliability concern and provide exceptional fuel economy for American consumers.

There’s a reason nobody is walking onto American dealership lots to check out the “improved” American product. Because they got smoked previously. Just like I hav ebeen smoked by every one of the Detroit 3. Now I drive an Acura and it is a marked improvement. Never the less, if Detroit fails, the import car makers will suffer greatly as well. Just keep that in mind when you say “let them fail!” Wouldl you really like to see chinese and indian cars take over the market share of GM? Not me. China already owns a good p ortion of this country.

Note: Hot commodities tip for all of you – Lead, brass, gunpowder & soup.

19, 2008 11:23 am

Link
Excuse me, but this “loan” is still really a bailout.

When I go to a bank to get a “loan,” I have to prove I can pay it back (like, maybe, have a positive net worth or a job that’s actually covering my bills) and I get things called “terms” that set forth exactly when I must pay it back, when, and at what the interest rate. All that is (for us rubes) what we expect for the privilege of securing a “loan.” Not so for the well-connected and well-paid. If what Bush did today is the new definition of “loan,” PLEASE tell me where I can go to sign up . . .

My sad kidding aside, there is zero chance that “viability” will be achieved by GM or Chrysler for years or decades without continued taxpayer subsidies. And make no mistake, these these same poor-mouthing clowns will be back come March for their next fix at our collective expense. What these three months of “loans” do is give GM and Chrysler and Ford extra time to lobby (pay off?) our various fiscally-brilliant representatives to ensure the next “infusion.” Yet another sad day for the taxpayer . . .

GB

These guys have been managing themselves into insolvency for the past 30 years. The worst part is that they HAVE to be bailed out. With such a desperate world economy that gets bleaker every week, we can’t handle the fall-out of millions more people out of work. The question is this: when does the government cut-off the spigot? They’re going to be back in mid-January asking for the same thing.

“If the domestic car companies actually produced what consumers wanted they wouldn’t be in the situation they are in now. Mickey Mouse could have done a better job predicting what consumers wanted than domestic auto makers over the past 5-10 years.”

In the American market I couldn’t agree with you more. But your customers should determine that, not the government. GM did not sell more cars than anyone else in the world last year because they produced cars that people didn’t want. It is a world market. Buick is the number 1 selling brand in China. The government has its blinders on as usual. If you want everyone to buy feuel efficient cars then set a policy that drives the demand there. Right now would be a perfect time to raise gasoline taxes to support $3.50 a gallon gasoline and at the same time raise revenue to fund the bailout. But too many lobbyists and special interests in the way.

For those of you saying we have to do whtever it takes to keep these behomoths on life support, I hope you’re aware that for all your conservative, buy-American retoric, you’re really pro-entitlements now. For example, according to your rationale, businesses that can’t compete on an even playing field are entitled to Federal help (because no private-sector bank in their right mind would extend these loans to the Big Three) and assembly workers who are largely unskilled are entitled to make $40/hour just because they work in the auto industry. This type of entitlement mentality is, in part, what’s bleeding this nation dry. And, yes, I resent my and future American’s tax dollars being used without my consent. (Oh yea, I forgot…there actually was a vote in Congress conducted by our duly-elected representatives, and Congress rejected this non-sense.) Democracy is dead, folks. Welcome to the brave new world of Executive Branch dictatorship.

I am still in the contention that not only is the company to blame but many people miis the fact that unions are a drag on scociety in many instances. If the union allowed layoffs without pay and benefits not extend to far for the retired they may not be as bad off. They need to sell a high profit vehicle to sustain what the union wants. NOw the average consumer can not afford that becasue they do not have the equity to tap into. They are lookin at the average vehicle for a fair price and the big three can not make money that way. It seems the company is run by the union, BAD FOR BUSINESS let tehm implode and get rid of the union. 4 months off and 85k as someone else wrote no wonder why the big three are struggling.

I agree that these are badly managed companies, and that the UAW is ultimately killing them, and needs to make serious concessions.

I think it all hinges on the UAW, if they make the necessary concessions to make the companies more profitable by march, and competitve with southern auto plants’ labor, I think they make it. If not, it will be the UAW’s greed that makes the final flush.

Why should I buy a car from a copany when their own employees don’t trust them. That’s the whole jusstification for the union. Management can’t be trusted to treat employees fairly. Its based on distrust and contention. Take that away and there is no sense iv having a union. Its not just that union employees are paid five bucks more per hour. Its that the senseless rules and regulations make it inefficient. You can have a screw sitting on the floor, and it can sit there waiting for a guy with the right skill level to arrive after driving over from the other side of the plant. If people could really see what goes on on plant floors, you’d get sick. Everyone playing games acting like they’re just following the rules

As a former GM dealer and a current (15 Years) Pre-Owned dealer I am here to tell you the quality of the domestics is super. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler can get their costs in line and the perception of fact to the market, they can succeed.
Best kept secret…a full sized Buick leSabre equipped with the 3800 v-6 engine will get between 30 and 34 mpg highway….in comfort and safety.

Keep the Faith

i just hope the government now takes the time to realy search thru the books of those companys to find all those mis mannaged funds and try and recupe some of it, also it is wierd that ceo’s now are ready to take cuts in pay and not when they went for congress. for 20 yearts the us big 3 have been steaming on the 1 view track that oil was forever and now they pay the price in my view that is almost criminal behaviour to the workforce both i the us and the rest of the world. or have they been getting such big checks from opec to keep on the 1 gallon per 10 miles fuel consumption. even the worst car from the chinees or indian manufactorors have a better effiecientie.

the uaw workers are not making as much as management is telling people, they are not living lavishly, look around you tony, uaw workers work 10x as hard as teachers, and most teachers do not
deserve the salaries they are getting,
look at some of our young people graduating high and canot even fill out a job application. do not sell the uaw workers short like that, they work all year long and do not get the whole summer off, they also work 8-10 hours a day, not from when the bell rings in the morning till it rings in the afternoon. i see teachers living in large expensive homes, driving lavish vehicles, made by hard working uaw workers, and they also take lavish vacations, quit whinning, if you do not want to teachers get a job with the uaw!!!

At 120 – 130 yen per $US, Toyota and Honda were powerhouses of profit. At 88 yen and in this environment, they are no longer profitable. If the US dollar weakens further as expected, Japan’s auto makers will suffer the same disadvantages as US automakers have endured for a couple of decades. The US companies could become the auto industries cash machine under those conditions while Japan’s products will suffer from cost cutting measures… trying to maintain those elusive profits. Toyota and Honda are now finding out what US automakers have been dealing with under all those years of the devalued Yen. So, yes… it is not only possible for US automakers to survive, they could end up dominant again. To Americans I say… invest in yourselves, have pride in your country’s industry.

Steve from MI, you clearly don’t understand the dynamics (or Economics) of the auto industry. If both Chystler and GM go under, there are already a number of Chineese auto makers lined up to purchase the assests. Honda and Toyota vehicles would actaully be cheaper as the new autos would be driving down the market costs of vehicles. This is the true reason why the imports support the bailout, it has nothing to to with shared parts availability. I’ll continue to purchase imports as long as they continue to provide better value (initial quality reports are a joke by the way). I do think Ford has got thier head in the game with a number of good world platform cars (the new Focus) and I see them as the only truely viable domestic.

1)Quality level and pricing of the domestic vehicles does not match. I think, even in today’s market, all of the domestic vechicles are way out of pricing range of regular american consumers. There should be some advantage of driving domestic vehicles. Big 3 needs to take some classes from Tata motor Industries.

Credit market is way too tight.

Needs more hybrid technology to improve fuel efficiency for future. Something new and affordable to spur the sales of these vehicles.

Think of yourself owning a business and someone comes to you and says I will loan some money to change your business model to stay in business but this is what you have to do:

1) produce the products I tell you to instead of what your customers demand.

If the domestic car companies actually produced what consumers wanted they wouldn’t be in the situation they are in now. Mickey Mouse could have done a better job predicting what consumers wanted than domestic auto makers over the past 5-10 years.

Can the auto industry be saved in Detroit? Sure. Will it? I doubt it. I agree with others that there are a lot of challenges – many of which face the US as a whole. We are in a dichotomy of wanting low-priced high-quality goods and wanting high salaries. As a country, we feel entitled to having a better lifestyle than our parents did. Sadly, no amount of flagwaving makes this all work out right. Low prices drive down wages. Low wages creates lower quality.

I think the question should be “What’s the point of having an auto industry with bloated costs (in particular retirement pensions, benefits, debt, and high executive salaries)?”

Instead of working for years to produce hybrid cars cheaply and to think into the future with revamps to design that meet the interests of younger generations, the American car companies stagnated for the last couple of decades. Yes, they have made some big steps recently, but these were far too little far too late. If I owned a struggling company with fierce competition, I wouldn’t think to “keep up with the Jones’”, I would plan to beat them to every punch. Yes, GM has the “Volt” coming down the pike, but that is just one car that will probably cost a fortune (unlike the Prius which has been out for years and will maintain a price 35%-50% less than the Volt). In foreign countries, GM and Ford both make great, small fuel sipping cars. They say that they can’t retool to make them here and they won’t import them. In World War II, the Big 3 (and many other car companies that were around then) retooled to make tanks, boats, planes etc in less than a year. If they could go from coupes to tanks in a year, they could have gone from Camaros to compacts and probably even thrown in a hybrid to boot!

A generation ago, the big business in the US was steel. People didn’t worry so much about the auto industry as the steel industry. In the end, high costs relative to foreign steel producers ended “big steel” in the US. We have made the same bed for the Big 3.

Times are hard, I know. I lost my job in the last month. I have to say, I would focus on finding a new industry, new companies and new employers for the people who work in the Big 3 now. Jobs about our country’s future – new car companies that are small and efficient, solar, wind, trains.

Perception is definitely reality. It will take a true paradigm shift in the “not so big 3″ Management’s operating philosophy to significantly reduce costs, and improve automobile quality (design included)in order to create increased consumer dmand

As a nation, we have shifted over the past generation to process more paper and develop more power point presentations, rather than management making difficult decisons and building goods that people really want at a globally competitive price.

Big 3 may be producing quality products, but they are all high gas consumption vehicles. They never listen to what consumers need. A lot of their models are at least a 4.0L V8 to get high horsepower and torque in order to compete with other competitors. Big 3 business strategy is just a failure. In some ways, Big 3 did not care US economy, they just tried to make quick money in short run, and once they fail, government have to save them, because they know that they are so huge that goverment would not let them fall.

Maybe building safer cars would help. How about looking at NASCAR for super safe cars. They can roll over 15 times at speeds of 200 mph, and 98% of the time, the driver walks away.

I realize we don’t care about saving lifes or anything, but it would be great to have a compromise between the two types of cars.. I’m sure we could build a safe roll cage frame, that don’t crush like a tin can..

They my cost more, but wouldn’t it be great to have a zero death rate from highway accidents in the future.
Build it, they will come!

To Tony in Cleveland, Ohio: You do realize that at an Import plant, the average pay rate is $30/hour, and the average pay rate at a GM/Ford/Chrysler plant is $29.50/hour, right? The difference isn’t in benefits, either, because including benefits it’s right around the $45/employee range. The difference is legacy costs (retiree benefits/pensions). GM alone has 400,000+ retirees still drawing pensions and health care – which inflates GM’s ‘cost per worker’ to $73/hour. Toyota has about 50 retirees Stateside. 400,000 to 50? You’re immediately at a competitive disadvantage, but that happens when you’ve been here for 100+ years. Truth be told, Toyota also doesn’t have to worry about healthcare at home – Japan has nationalized health care.

Read up on it. The UAW isn’t the monster southern Republicans make it out to be. In fact, the UAW is the reason your foreign automakers pay their workers a ‘fair wage’ of $30/hour.

I do not know what is to blame for the big 3’s financial problems, but I seriously doubt they can suddenly start competing with the quality of foreign cars, I really wish that they could. To say that foreign car owners are simply not familiar with what cars the big 3 has been putting out over the past few years is unfair, we get plenty of opportunity to hear and see what they are like. 2 years ago I had a Chevy (some sort of new van/SUV type) loaner car from the Toyota dealer. The design just seemed very inferior compare to my Toyota mini van. This year while in CA I got a Jeep patriot as a rental, again brand new 2008, but such a crappy feeling poorly designed vehicle, no room, gas hog, 4 seater not 5. After that experience, I kinda feel like I know why the big 3 are in trouble and the bad economy is just making it more obvious. Lets pray that they can turn things around.

Shoddy workmanship and arrogant belief that the American public would buy whatever Detroit rolled off the assembly line back in the 70’s brought imports like Toyota into American garages, instead.

Now, it’s a decade of producing gas guzzling SUV’s and slowness getting a clue that gas was going to go sky high [Katrina, 2 1/2 years ago, a wake up call].

It remains to be seen if Detroit can get its act in gear quick enough to produce efficient, low mileage, reliable cars.

No, I haven’t been in a showroom lately because I haven’t seen anything to inspire me to shell out $30K. A 20-year old Volvo with 300,000 miles on it,a 4-cylinder that’s economical on gas, and being a station wagon can carry anything I need, including construction materials.

Wages I doubt differ that much between the union and non union plants. Avg. salary in Detroit, $28/hr. In non union southern plants, $25/hr. Retirement and health benefits are the difference between us and other countries,though. In many countries health care is universal, government provided — something we do not have in this country.

GM could just as well put out a Prius or its equivalent. They counted on selling high profit pickup trucks, and SUV’s to soccer moms — and see where it got them.

The real solution it seems to me is to go all out to produce cars running on other than combustion engines — e.g. electric. Tesla has an all electric, 250 mile range, 0-60 in 4 sec., lithium battery car on the road. Takes 3.5 hours to recharge. With large scale production of the batteries here in this country, the cost should come way down and Detroit be able to put out an electric car in that $30K range. And, yes, electric SUV’s.

Cost to operate, between 1 cent and 2 cents per mile.

Who wants to bet along with me that the Middle East oil barons will continue to cut production and that once demand is back up, so will the price at the pump. We’ve seen $4 gasoline. My bet is $5 is next.

We need to wake up as an auto buying public and see the writing on the wall. Then let Detroit know we want fuel efficient vehicles — of all types.

Yes they will survive. They produce some of the best cars in the industry. I’ve had 3 GM cars in my lifetime and all have gone over 200,000 miles. Many of the negative comments on here are coming from people who never owned an American car. The foreign car makers and their countries are so happy that Americans are more than happy to destroy their own livelihoods. Many people would be suprised as to how much foreign governments support their industry. If you are truly American, try supporting American companies once in a while.

Let the fittest survive. The void will be taken up. US automakers are uncompetitive and mismanaged. Instead of investing in more fuel-efficient cars, they sued the States for stricter pollution standards showing not only bad judgment, but total disregard for environment. We will only prolong the inevitable and add to our already huge budget crisis.

If the Big 3 go the way of the dinosaur, what happens to the military, farm equipment industry, heavy equipment industry and others? The mom and pop shops (read Main Street) that make widgets for the Big 3, the military and other industries won’t be able to continue manufacturing when the 1000 widgets they manufacture per month for the Big 3 (as opposed to the 1 for the military and the 4 for other industries) are no longer needed. The Big 3 is the bread and butter for these shops; the others, not so much. Best hope we don’t lose those basics.

As long as we are rewarding bad management and bad quality in Detroit, can we send some funds over to the Lions – i think they could use some money as well!

They are going to get the money, spend it in the next couple of months, March 31 will come around, they won’t have a plan in place, the Government will try to take the money back, but the automakers won’t have it, and then they will go bankrupt anyway.

A Depression II and a return to being debt averse and living within ones means will quickly return.

Matthew, that’s what’s essentially happening in the economy now. People are being forced to live within their means and the government is doing everything in their power to ensure they go back to living beyond their means once again. Sad isn’t it?

Over the millennia, humans have tried different systems to achieve an improved standard of living. We have tried religious leaders, kings, central committees, and professional corporate managers.
The implosion of the Soviet system about 20 years was hailed as Our Side winning the Cold War; now, it seems it is our turn to implode. Every time we entrust power to a few, utter failure follows – whether we are talking about Rome, Moscow, or Detroit. Humans entrust power to someone especially gifted and enjoy some good years. But, because leaders are mortal, the concentrated power is ultimately inherited by others either unable or unwilling to use the power for society’s benefit.
We now are hearing how recent events demonstrate a failure of the free market system – Yeah? What is the alternative? Whatever you suggest, it’s been tried, and it failed! The lesson of the last months is NOT to toss out free market enterprise.
The lessons are: 1) Limit the degree of concentrated power any single entity may enjoy. And, 2) bolster systems of accountability under which the entities operate.
We have limited concentrated power for decades: Anti-trust actions are the clearest example; they were taken for essentially the same reasons as seen here.
Meanwhile, financial reporting practices have not been modified in any significant way since the day an investor bought that first personal computer! The reporting system created for investors with only pen, paper, and adding machine is the one in use today – 30 years into the Information Age!
“CAN Detroit survive?” is the wrong question. “SHOULD Detroit survive? is the better one.

Where has common sense gone, you can see that auto sales have been bad for past several months and will continue to be bad for the foreseeable able future. Do you really think people are just going to start buying cars again like they were a year ago. People are not willing to take on the debit they way they did before. So in 3 months from now when sales still are not there and they have blown through this loan money what then. So Chrysler is closing their plant for 30 days and the employees will get full pay or almost full pay for not working and no one sees a problem with this as to how these 3 got into this situation. Again where has common sense gone.

I have always thought… and now I know that the UAW and most other unions are no longer a benefit. I have always purchased American brands of autos ( and yes I know parts are made overseas ) and will continue to do so if the Big 3 exist.

Interesting comments sounds like the same bunch that said gas would be $6.00 a gallon by Christmas. Letting the world spin into a depression would result in death, starvation and rampant crime. So you folks that say let it happen I hope you have alot of guns and plenty of food. Because the world today is far larger and meaner then it was during the 30’s. God save us all. Lets do whatever needs to be done with safeguards against abuse but let it be swift and encompassing because oil drop $100 in less then six months and we could go from what we know to a place we have have never been just as quick.

Just stop for a moment and look at the balance sheet of GM. If one stripped away the identifiers, their balance sheet would be a classic study in how NOT to run a company. A negative ($60) Billion in Net Equity. And they are still on life support? Are you kidding me?! To make this dinosaur live, the haircuts everyone will have to take are almost beyond comprehension.

Why has it been so difficult to get “bailout” money for the Big 3? Polls indicate the voting public – and Congress – should let them take bankruptcy. Have all you foreign car owners been to one of their dealerships lately? Driven their cars? Researched their mileage and safety records? The press told you people a long time ago Toyota was superior and you blindly believed it. No one seems to mind that tax dollars are going to the criminally inept at AIG or that Congress, in the rush to approve of Obama’s plan to upgrade the US infrastructure, is adding billions of dollars of “pork” that should never be approved. After thinking about the tragedy of losing GM, and Ford because of the buying public’s stupidity, think about all the “millions of jobless people in US that will be put to work building our bridges, and roads, etc.” I’m sure all of those out of work Wall Street greedy people will be out building inferior bridges and roads….really want to see pictures of that happening.

Hey Russ, You are picking out a couple of good cars that they have made out of a 100 models they build. If you look at Toyota and Honda, not one car is bad or poorly built. Also how do you know how long they will last? They just came out so even that is questionable. They need to start using real wood on there trim like lexus instead of using fake wood looking plastic. I think people are really clueless. First they have to make more cars to pay there bills then what the demand is in the marketplace for them. 2nd my friend that works for Ford made 85k last year and was paid for being off 4 months last year…..What the hell is that?Must be nice. Mark my words. They will be back in March for more money, no doubt about it.

Let’s see. I think the answer to this question is quite apparent. Think of yourself owning a business and someone comes to you and says I will loan some money to change your business model to stay in business but this is what you have to do:

1) produce the products I tell you to instead of what your customers demand.
2) Be overseen by a person I appoint who has no clue as to how your business operates but you must abide by what decisions they make in the running of your business.
3)Your executives must fly around the world to visit their wordwide operations on private airlines and give up their private time efficient transportation for the sake of political correctness. (I can keep my private 747 though for me and my buddies).
4)You must cancel your current workers contracts and renegotiate a wage and benefit structure that is similar to your foreign competitors that have recieved billions in tax credits and worker training to locate in your own country.
5)Finally you must have all this restructuring done to make money by the end of March or I want my money paid back in full. This must be done during the deepest sales decline in your industries history.
6) By the way, I thought you should know that you are the only company that I am loaning money to where this is required. You constitute 2% of the total of the money I am currently lending to people that has no oversight and I have no idea where it is being used or spent.

Now tell me if this were your conmpany facing these obstacles what would you think your chance of survival might be? Why don’t we just cement your feet into a block and throw you overboard.

Not only will GM survive but they have been reducing their structural cost base for 3 years. GM has postured itself for success. Blame the Paulsons of the world for letting Lehman fail and drying up all the credit for the entire world lending capital industry. WAS THIS PLANNED? Who knows the answer to that but had credit not dried up and with a viable market somewhere between 10 and 17 million vehicles GM would have been financially sound with enough cash rolling in to keep us afloat. When they cut off 40% of sales for all car markets in North America then the impact is in the cash flow. GM and Ford will be around for another 100 years and our quality will speak for itself. Ignorance is amuck with the nay sayers. Educate yourselves for crying out loud. And by the way Andrew in Kearny, N.J., if the domestic auto industry fails then good luck on purchasing your $60,000 Corrola from Toyota because you will see an increase in auto prices unprecedented by no other in history.

The credit market certainly contributed to the failure of the “Big 3″ but it certainly wasn’t the main reason. These companies – whether true or not – are not PERCEIVED to produce the same quality and affordability in cars that other foreign manufacturers do. They’re also not PERCEIVED as keeping up with the times in terms of the technology incorporated into their cars. As a result, people are buying more foreign cars. That’s the issue. Perception is everything and whether it’s true or not, “Big 3″ leadership let public perception of their brands diminish. Now that global car sales are down, they’re getting even less of an already slimmed down demand for cars. Bailing them out is only delaying the inevitable.

It drives me crazy how quick people are to throw under the rug companies that made this country great for so many years. The truth is that by most standards today, domestic cars are equal to, if not superior to, the foreign ones. Certainly this has not been the case in the 80s and 90s, but it is true today. And yes, the big three’s business model has been off for several years, but if Honda or Toyota had anywhere near the number of retirees to take care of they would be in the same boat. With a cost structure overhaul, and a renewed mindset of car shoppers, they CAN survive, but I am not convinced they WILL survive.

The Big 3 will fail for 2 simple reasons. Vehicle pricing is way to high from $25,000 to $40,000 for a car or truck and the Banks are not loaning any money. Even with “A” credit it is hard to get a loan. The Big 3 still loses…..

I don’t believe they can survive. No one will buy from a near collapsed company.. It’s too late, stop whining and move on. Excessive debt is more than 65 billion dollars between the 3 companies.. How in the world will they survive, PLEASE WAKE UP!

…and can someone please explain why a UAW member with no-college degree, doing basically unskilled labor, deserves 2 to 3 times the pay of a Teacher?

In response to Ken Hall from Detroit. Chapter 13 is for personal bankruptsy protection. get a life, and a job. I hear the unemployment rate inside of Detroit is already one of the two highest in the nation. Do you want everyone to suffer your misery?

lets bail out sports teams next. cetainly we would not want to see these players that run around with a ball suffer and financial hardship. why did we not bail out mothers cookies also, i miss those little cicus animals melting in my mouth.
let detriot figure this out for themselves. if they cannot get figure a way out of the without the government they desreve to fail!

It never ceases to amaze me how the only way anyone can justify saving these basket cases we call Detoit Auto is by wrapping up the argument in a flag of Red, White, and Blue rhetoric while completely ignoring and glossing over the nearly infinite list of fundamental problems. Maybe going to Japan for “help” wouldn’t be such a bad idea. After all. They can “do it” better, faster, cheaper, and longer than the Americans can. With superior quality. And they have money to lend.

Look at the difference in their TV commercials for God’s sake. Your typical American car commercials espouse traits such as ego, status, instant gratification, and the like. An dyet they still have to be practically given away. Then go watch one from Honda or Toyota. They are advertising a car that’s safe, reliable, and reasonably priced. In short: practical. They seldom appeal to the “I’m American…I’m special…I deserve it…and I deserve it NOW” hubris that personifies America today.

Sorry. But Detroit has had 30 years. THIRTY freaking years….to get its act together. If they can’t change NOW, and I mean as in December 19th, 2008 now (not next quarter or next year, but NOW), then they deserve to join the likes of Pan Am, TWA, and Montgomery Wards. Detroits Management may have been the Captaians that struck the proverbial iceberg. The UAW and the UNions were standing there shotguns in hand, shooting holes through the keel.

Good riddance to all of them. I’ll continue buying my Japanese cars that are built better, last longer, and are cheaper to acquire and maintain.

When was the last time the import buyers have even walked onto the lot of a domestic automaker?

For me, 1980 and I bought a $7000 hunk of junk. (Pricey at the time). I won’t make that mistake again.

Thank goodness Bush did this. When you look at all the money which was thrown at the banks without any agreements from them, it only makes sense to help a vital American industry. Have the automakers made terrible mistakes – of course. But you can’t blame the U.S. automakers for 40% and 45% less sales in one year. Toyota, Nissan and Honda are way down too. Nobody could account have predicted this and like Bush said, these are extraordinary circumstances. I think when the economy rebounds, you’ll see a different, fundamentally changed U.S. auto industry.

I really gave GM a chance last February when I bought a new car. I went to a Buick dealership and test drove a fully loaded Lucerne CXL. I had to get the salesperson to be quiet and turn off the radio (that he turned on) so I could see how quiet it was while driving. Not too bad, but not exactly what I was expecting. I then went to a Toyota dealership and test drove an Avalon Limited. Sales experience was dramatically different, but I’m sure everyone understands. Unfortunately for GM, there was no contest even with a 48 month warranty on the Lucerne. I bought the Avalon because it was a superior car and it has not disappointed me once. It is assembled in Kentucky as well.

Sorry

let them fail i will buy a toyota. middle class americans work too hard for their money to have it given to people that abviously do not know how and where and when to spend it. let them fail!

If you make a sub-standard product that nobody wants can you survive?
As long as the government and other suckers bail you out no problem. If you have to make it on your own, no way. As we turn into a socialist society this smoldering wreck might survive indefinitely. Expect more losers lining up for handouts (Banks, insurance, airlines, cities, states, retailers, Starbucks, etc).

I’m from Canada. Our economy have largely depended upon US consumption (being near 80% of our exportations sold to the US)
The way we see it is that rate or level of consuming is completely artificial, out of reality.
We Canadians also consume a lot, we also have debts ans loans to pay, till the end of life for many.
Now, we finally realize this is not longer possible, trees do not grow till heaven.
It’s time to come back to roots, to “re-learn” to save and spend rationally.
Resources are limited (call it oil, food, water, etc)
Let’s face the change, sooner or later il will be good for all of us.
I think that it would be a painful surgery a bankruptcy and that the three bigs will soon transform into the two bigs (or maybe one big)
To whom you will sell so many cars, from so many companies all around the world?
(My native language is French, so i apologized for my functional English.)

when is this going to end??? where and how was the previous bailout money spent??? can us taxpayers have an accouting of this money?? what is next bailing out sports teams to the players
can continue to make millions for tossing a ball and gouging poor americans for tickets to see this nosense??

I think short term this a better thing to do then load up banks with money they will not part with except CEO bonuses ect. and at this point cost no more than what has been spent on paper. we need to save manufacturing somehow in this country and need new ideas for this, if we don’t i do not see how this country will ever provide for itself the things it needs. i am very disappointed in alot of people who constantly say things such as “I’ll just buy from foreign car company X because they….” if anyone knew if we lost manufacturing capability which is were this is all heading it will be devastating to everyone.

I keep reading on here that the Big 3 do hot produce quality automobiles. That may be true in the past but people need to get out and see what is NOW available. GM in the past 3 years has come out with Aura,the new Malibu,new CTS, Traverse. Soon to come the Cruz. These are high quality, high milage, cost compatable with the imports. People have it drilled into their heads that the Big 3 build inferior products. When was the last time the import buyers have even walked onto the lot of a domestic automaker?

In a global market, the UAW puts the big 3 at such a competitive disavantage it will be difficult for them to produce vehicles as efficiently as non-unionized competitors. Simply put, te UAW has outlived it’s usefuness.

In foreign owned, non-union, auto plants in the US, employees are paid a fair wage and produce quality vehicles…so what benefit does the UAW actually provide???

Interesting that those away from Detroit are so quick to slam US companies and too ignorant to see how vital US Companies are to our Country. And the South thinks they will rise again – on the backs of Japanese and Korean companies.

Thank God W has some ‘viable’ business sense. Most of these posts I’m guessing come from the same taxpayers who supported $600 billion for Iraq and 10 figure largess for Halliburton. Likewise the Malibu and and Impala are more highly rated than any of their comparable Japanese makes. Ignorance is bliss because some of these same posts forget the Japanese and Germans have subsidized health care AND that Toyota has been reduced to junk by Moody’s as well…they just have less retirees than GM. The ignoramuses in the press, southeast, and anti-domestic car buyers miss the point completely. Thank God Obama will be around to rid this nation of the aforementioned dictating idiotic economic, social, domestic, and foreign policy. The credit markets caused the Big 3 to crash but it seems in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king Mariano!

Sadly, I don’t believe car makers will not survive. In my case, I have lost faith in the brand and until some serious restructuring, starting with management, begins I myself would not buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler car. I don’t want to get stuck with a car that will in the short term disappear.

THE AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY IS YOU! IT IS LIKE CRITICIZING YOUR MOTHER.
THE NEXT TIME YOU ARE BROKE WITH NO HOPE CALL JAPAN. ALSO IF WAR BREAKS OUT CALL YOUR LOCAL TOYOTA DEALERSHIP FOR INSTRUCTIONS. STOP DRAGGING ME DOWN.

I do not believe so with out total over hall. Even with the bailout from Bush, greed has overtaken them for years. They build inferior gas unfriendly vehicles. They do not listen to consumers and are just trying to make a quick buck. They seem to have hired the buisness schools lowest students and put them in CEO positons. They should not even be aloud to trade on the stock exchange. They are a liability and need to file Chapter 13 and restructure.

Making “decent” cars is easy. Predicting fuel prices and consumer interest three years from now, and then making dependable, durable, safe, light, efficient, vehicles that are cheap enough and comply with every country’s laws and needs while at the same time paying decent wages and benefits and still turning a profit for shareholders, not to mention providing health care benefits to a generation of retirees? Hmmm, not so easy as you might think!

No way. They have to weather the slowest months of the year – January and Febuary. Afterwards, they have to prove viability? I’m just wondering how they will be able to give back the loan when it is recalled.

I really feel that the US Automakers are heading for a crash. They have been going down for years, and lending a crumbling business only slows down the end result, it does not change it.

As stand alone companies? Probably not. They are insolvent and unviable and have antiquated, outdated, and unsustainable business models predicated on an assumption of a motoring culture that will continue with indefinite “growth”. The problem is none of that matters. In America, we only live for today. And are desperate to continue sustaining the unsustainable. We have shown that we are willing to continue with “business as usual” at all costs and damned be the consequences, which will be pushed onto the next administration. Todays bailouts (or loans, or lifelines, or whatever semantic hair splitting terminology you wish to call it) are just the latest in our desperate (but ultimately futile) attempt to buy our way out a depression. This will not be the last bag-o’-cash we toss to Detroit. They WILL be back for more. And more and more ad infinitum. And now that the precedent has been set, there will be little reason to turn them away.

As an aside, I have yet to see any convincing or logical argument that explains how we can solve the consequences of rampant borowing and spending with….more rampant borrowing and spending.

If you think I’m a full blown Bear who would love nothing more than to see a return to 1930’s Soup Kitchens and high rise suicides en masse, then you read me loud and clear. Accountability and responsibility has been eradicated from our culture during the last generation or two. And now we are paying dearly for it. A Depression II and a return to being debt averse and living within ones means will quickly return.

THAT would be the REAL solution.

It is the same greed that lines the pockets of top management that makes a product designed to last only as long as the payments. Detroit could make a decent car but they don’t want to.
They will go the way of the dinosaur and I will keep buying japanese, where there is value in my purchase.

If long-term survival were a football game, I’d need at least a two touchdown handicap to even consider placing a bet.

The auto makers need to go through steps of serious restructure. If they keep on making inefficient cars with out dated technologies, the tax payers can just kiss the nearly $14 billion goodbye. Maybe Obama can give some of green projects (i.e. electric cars) to these companies.

Short term? No way! It would take a pretty long time to restore american pride in doing the best cars in the world, to convince consumers, to change the phylosophy of “gimme, gimme” of UAW union and to the carmakers just to admit that they are not doing good job.
And we have not seen a start of their admittance

GM and Ford will remain, with Ford gaining market share. It would probably be a mistake for GM and Chrysler to merge. I think Chrysler will enter into bankruptcy and never come out, but rather end up being liquidated.

In order to make a determination for survival or viability, accounting must be evaluated. Any comment made without that information would be inappropriate. Therefore, if the government plans on using our money to provide a loan to the automakers, I feel we should be provided the accounting details.

Nation that does regular launches in space, has most advanced weapons systems and is leader in other numerous technologies, can not make decent cars? Sorry but I am not able to believe that!